# California proposal to allow its residents to avoid the $10,000 tax deduction limitation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 7, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016 "2018-01-07T01:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/1 "2018-01-07T01:13:43Z")
So the recent income tax simplification bill may have complicated things in yest another fashion. California state senate Kevin de León introduced a bill allowing taxpayers to make a charitable donation to the California Excellence Fund instead of paying certain state taxes. They could then fully deduct that contribution from their federal taxable income rather than being limited to $10,000. I’m pretty sure that charitable deductions to the state are already deductible at least in some circumstances, so this might be difficult to fight. And I don’t see how the federal government could disallow a state tax credit. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/2 "2018-01-07T02:56:56Z")
If they are getting something for it, the value of that incentive isn’t tax deductible. So a $1000 donation that earns a certificate worth $1000 off CA property taxes results in a net federal deduction of $0. CA Sen. de Leon is basically waving a giant “audit my constituents” flag at the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/3 "2018-01-07T03:31:03Z")
Not true necessarily in this case. Other states already allow tax credit for charitable deductions to various programs such as environmental or to support religious schools. See > **[Will California outmaneuver a new federal cap on tax deductions?](https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/02/will-california-outmaneuver-a-new-federal-cap-on-tax-deductions/)** > > A new proposal would let Californians donate to the state instead of paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/4 "2018-01-07T03:44:29Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > If they are getting something for it, the value of that incentive isn’t tax deductible. So a $1000 donation that earns a certificate worth $1000 off CA property taxes results in a net federal deduction of $0. CA Sen. de Leon is basically waving a giant “audit my constituents” flag at the IRS. Are you a tax attorney or accountant? One might suggest that such statements should have some qualifiers attached otherwise. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/5 "2018-01-07T04:00:58Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Are you a tax attorney or accountant? One might suggest that such statements should have some qualifiers attached otherwise. :rolleyes: I am not. From IRS Pub 526, 2016 version > [@](#): > > Contributions From Which You Benefit > If you receive or expect to receive a financial or economic benefit as a result of making a contribution to a qualified organization, you can’t deduct the part of the contribution that represents the value of the benefit you receive. Sure he may be playing some loophole or grey area elsewhere. In theory a coffee cup in return to a donation to charity is suppossed to be decuted too. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/6 "2018-01-07T04:07:56Z")
The little bit I’ve seen / heard from Kevin de Leon has not left me impressed with his grasp of important details. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/7 "2018-01-07T04:08:48Z")
That’s the name he chose? I prefer the First Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/8 "2018-01-07T04:24:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Contributions From Which You Benefit > If you receive or expect to receive a financial or economic benefit as a result of making a contribution to a qualified organization, you can’t deduct the part of the contribution that represents the value of the benefit you receive. Uh, really? That covers every business that has ever made a charitable donation. No way is that enforceable, let alone considering the practical issues of auditing 25M Californians. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/9 "2018-01-07T04:29:52Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Sure he may be playing some loophole or grey area elsewhere. In theory a coffee cup in return to a donation to charity is suppossed to be decuted too. Did you read, the cite I gave. This doesn’t appear to be too gray. Other states are already doing this for other things. Apparently charitable deductions give you state credits as well. The point is the charity is not giving you anything for your contribution. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/10 "2018-01-07T05:18:21Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Did you read, the cite I gave. Was in a rush at that moment. A different cite which is in line with what I had seen before > **[State Strategies to Preserve SALT Deductions for High-Income Taxpayers: Will...](https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/state/state-strategies-preserve-state-and-local-tax-deduction/)** > > What is the SALT tax deduction? The scramble to restore the full SALT deduction for high-income taxpayers resulted in plans that are unlikely to succeed. Your cite seems to not cover any kind of quid pro quo in any of the plans mentioned. That it’s at least better reporting than I had seen which basically described a slam dunk for the IRS in court. The state is letting it count as a double deduction counting it when taxpayers bring over their federal agi and then letting them deduct it again on the state form. It’s trickier in this case since the intent it’s clearly to pay state taxes not increase donations to clearly charitable contributions. I will step back to a judge will very likely be deciding and there is not a clear case for the proposed law. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/11 "2018-01-07T05:56:29Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > The state is letting it count as a double deduction counting it when taxpayers bring over their federal agi and then letting them deduct it again on the state form. It’s trickier in this case since the intent it’s clearly to pay state taxes not increase donations to clearly charitable contributions. I’m almost sure this is not true. I can’t check right now, but your federal Adjusted Gross Income is determined before charitable deductions so if your state starts with the AGI (as my state does), you would not be getting a double deduction. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/12 "2018-01-07T06:37:23Z")
Why should state or municipal taxes be deductible at the federal level? And I thought more taxes were a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/13 "2018-01-07T06:56:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why should state or municipal taxes be deductible at the federal level? And I thought more taxes were a good thing? As a general principle, it seems logical and fair that you should only be taxed on money that you actually receive, not some abstract theoretical number. So, if you’re being taxed by two entities, the second one should only tax you on what you have left after the first one takes its cut. In other words, either State taxes should be deductible from Federal, or Federal from State. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/14 "2018-01-07T12:21:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > … And I thought more taxes were a good thing? This sort of childish snark is why it’s hard to take right-wing banter seriously. Who has time to sift through confusion and gibberish hoping to find insight? But, just in case your question was sincere, most of us would prefer a _fair_ tax system. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/15 "2018-01-07T16:23:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > … No way is that enforceable, let alone considering the practical issues of auditing 25M Californians. 25 million Californians aren’t going to try this. I’d be surprised if even 2 million did, but even then, throw a few of those in prison over it, and the numbers will dwindle the next year. That’s how this works. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/16 "2018-01-07T16:27:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > As a general principle, it seems logical and fair that you should only be taxed on money that you actually receive, not some abstract theoretical number. So, if you’re being taxed by two entities, the second one should only tax you on what you have left after the first one takes its cut. In other words, either State taxes should be deductible from Federal, or Federal from State. Seems like California could allow a deduction on state taxes for any Federal taxes paid, and I doubt anyone outside of California would complain or even care. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/17 "2018-01-07T17:22:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Seems like California could allow a deduction on state taxes for any Federal taxes paid, and I doubt anyone outside of California would complain or even care. Gee, I wonder why it wouldn’t be in the interest of the state to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/18 "2018-01-07T17:47:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Seems like California could allow a deduction on state taxes for any Federal taxes paid, and I doubt anyone outside of California would complain or even care. Well, obviously the problem is that states have historically had priority in taxing people as they see fit first, then the Federal govt takes its percentage of what’s left. I wasn’t suggesting a solution to the problem, just that there is some logic to the deduction in principle. Obviously what you say would just cut CA revenues by a quarter. But I guess this isn’t a good faith discussion anyway. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/19 "2018-01-07T17:50:56Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Apparently charitable deductions give you state credits as well. The point is the charity is not giving you anything for your contribution. But in this case, the state is both the charity and the one giving the benefit, so it’s a separate case from giving to other charities. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Gee, I wonder why it wouldn’t be in the interest of the state to do that. Just like it’s not in the interest of the feds to five a deduction for state taxes paid. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016/20 "2018-01-07T17:57:47Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Just like it’s not in the interest of the feds to five a deduction for state taxes paid. Well, obviously the issue is really whether the states should have priority over the Federal government in taxing citizens. If all the states had the same tax rate, then it wouldn’t matter how the tax accounting was done in order to raise a given amount of revenue. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-proposal-to-allow-its-residents-to-avoid-the-10-000-tax-deduction-limitation/806016.md?page=2)