# California Propositions 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 11, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808 "2018-10-11T15:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/21 "2018-10-15T14:09:50Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yes but there are two State Supreme Court justices up for re-election, one of whom is Carol A. Corrigan. She voted against overturning Proposition 8 and wrote one of the dissents. She was vehemently against same sex marriage and I will be voting NO on her. Thanks for the heads up. > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Meanwhile…did anyone else get the same phone call concerning the “error” on the ballot? It turns out that the “real title” of Proposition 6 is the “Gas Tax Repeal Initiative.” I for one would like to thank “Reform California: Yes on 6” for saving the taxpayers money by paying for this important announcement. I got it, too. But since the iPhone auto-transcribes quite well, I didn’t even listen to it. Straight to the bit recycler. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/22 "2018-10-15T16:50:17Z")
Prop 8 - the Dialysis initiative, appears to be drawing a lot of spending by the big dialysis companies in opposition.[Article here](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-dialysis-obamacare-20181012-story.html). \*The dialysis industry has contributed more than $99 million to the No campaign, with DaVita putting up about $61.5 million, Fresenius about $27.7 million and smaller dialysis firms the rest, according to the latest filings with the California secretary of state. The measure’s sponsor, the Service Employees International Union (which is hoping to unionize dialysis workers) has spent about $20 million so far on the Yes on 8 campaign. The fact that the dialysis companies consider campaign spending of this magnitude to be a bargain should give you a sense of the money at stake. Dialysis is fabulously profitable for the companies. DaVita earned pretax operating profit of about $1.8 billion on $10.1 billion in dialysis revenue last year. Fresenius reported pretax operating profit of $2.3 billion on dialysis revenue of $11.7 billion in North America. The key to these lavish earnings is the companies’ ability to extract rich reimbursements from private insurance companies covering their patients. And that’s where the gaming of the Affordable Care Act comes in. \* From the article, the companies are gaming the system to rake-in big profits on the backs of insurance companies. The process: 1. Dialysis companies fund a non-profit “charity” to help dialysis patients find care, 2. Charity direct (“steer”) them away from publicly-funded insurance (Medicare) which has a capped re-imbursement, 3. Onto the rolls of private insurance (since no one can be denied) using the “charity” subsidy, 4. Private insurance will re-imburse at higher rates than Medicare, 5. Profit! So, these companies are using dialysis patients as pawns to keep the gravy train rolling. I can see why they are fighting and spending hard to defeat this one. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/23 "2018-10-15T19:45:53Z")
Even if the initiatives in opposition to governmental interests or positions (i.e., 5, 6, and 11) pass, presumably the state AG won’t defend them against the inevitable court challenges, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/24 "2018-10-15T20:17:38Z")
Sounds to me like what you guys really need is Proposition 0: Eliminate the Proposition System in California. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/25 "2018-10-15T21:47:08Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Sounds to me like what you guys really need is Proposition 0: Eliminate the Proposition System in California. The proposition system in California is really, REALLY important to have. It was instituted by the Progressives when they ran the state in the early 1900s. Prior to the availability of the proposition, all legislative attempts were railroaded (literally) in the direction that the conservative Republicans wanted (“literally” in the sense that the Republicans were in the pocket of the Railroad company executives). Now that the state is firmly in the control of the Democratic Party, the same need exists as a check on the Legislature. An example of this power in action in a good way was the introduction of auto insurance reform via ballot initiative in 1988. That year, multiple initiatives dealing with auto insurance reform were on the ballot, because the Legislature was either incapable, or unwilling, to deal with the pressing need for reform. While the reform that passed (Proposition 103) may not have been the best answer, it was better than no answer at all. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/26 "2018-10-16T13:39:44Z")
Both the No on Prop 8 (dialysis) and No on 10 (rent control) campaigns are running advertising with themes that these propositions do nothing for veterans. Uh, yeah, I guess. Neither does the chicken coop initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/27 "2018-10-16T14:17:52Z")
I don’t watch television anymore and election season reaffirms that decision. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/28 "2018-10-16T15:52:08Z")
It’s probably good for a state to have some sort of ballot initiative procedure, to provide a check against entrenched politicians (getting rid of gerrymandering, for instance). But California maybe does take it too far. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/29 "2018-10-16T18:50:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They can, unless they work for a company like American Medical Response, who overworks them so that they almost never get breaks. These guys dont get paid like firefighters or police, nor do they get great retirement. Two requirements I noticed in the proposition: meal breaks cannot be forced to be taken in the first or last hours of a shift, and if there are multiple meal breaks, they must be at least two hours apart. > [@Chronos](#): > > Unless the law itself (not just the brief summary) actually specifies a minimum required area per hen. But that minimum area is what’s important, not the kind of enclosure used. The law requires: As of the start of 2020, 43 square feet of floor space per calf, and 1 square foot of floor space per hen; As of the start of 2022, 24 square feet of floor space per pig. > [@Chronos](#): > > It’s probably good for a state to have some sort of ballot initiative procedure, to provide a check against entrenched politicians (getting rid of gerrymandering, for instance). But California maybe does take it too far. Actually, the ballot propositions in the 1980s that tried to undo the gerrymandering done by the legislature were all voted down; it took the state legislature to pass a law to require the boundaries be drawn by an “independent commission.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/30 "2018-10-16T19:33:31Z")
I wasn’t referring to specifics, there: It’s possible that those two were just bad plans (we had a supposed anti-gerrymandering initiative here in Ohio a few years back that, if you read the fine print, would actually have _required_ extensive gerrymandering). I meant the principle: If the legislature is bound and determined to hold onto gerrymandering, it’s hard to stop them without something like ballot initiatives. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/31 "2018-10-17T21:34:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > 6.\*\* NO, NO, NO!! \*\* Mostly pushed by lies that the tax money is being spent on illegal aliens and “the gays”. > > - I really must insist that you provide a cite for this. Prop 6 is the repeal of a massive gasoline tax that hurts poor people the most. That would include a lot of people of color. My corrupt representatives have mislabeled this proposition to benefit greedy government workers. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/32 "2018-10-17T22:07:16Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > I really must insist that you provide a cite for this. > > Prop 6 is the repeal of a massive gasoline tax that hurts poor people the most. That would include a lot of people of color. My corrupt representatives have mislabeled this proposition to benefit greedy government workers. Many FB posts. Sorry, but I cant link to them, most are a week ago or more. No, actually, not fixing the roads “hurts poor people the most”, many people and local mechanics have been pointing out a sharp increase in road damages. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/33 "2018-10-17T22:53:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many FB posts. Sorry, but I cant link to them, most are a week ago or more. > > No, actually, not fixing the roads “hurts poor people the most”, many people and local mechanics have been pointing out a sharp increase in road damages. So you cannot produce evidence that the opposition to the massive gas tax is about illegal aliens and LGBTQ? But that’s what you wrote? Interesting. California already has some the highest gas taxes in the USA. What have they been doing with all of that money that they’re collected? It surely hasn’t been going completely to the road maintenance? Why did they mislabel the proposition? Why not simply call it the “Gas Tax Repeal?” Wouldn’t that be the clearest way to describe it instead of “Eliminates certain road repair and transportation funding. Requires certain fuel taxes and vehicle fees be approved by the electorate.”? This is what rule by Democrats looks like. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/34 "2018-10-17T23:36:04Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > So you cannot produce evidence that the opposition to the massive gas tax is about illegal aliens and LGBTQ? But that’s what you wrote? Interesting. > > California already has some the highest gas taxes in the USA. What have they been doing with all of that money that they’re collected? It surely hasn’t been going completely to the road maintenance? Why did they mislabel the proposition? Yes, because that’s is what I read. Diatribes about Governor Brown giving all the tax money to fund projects for 'the gays" and “illegals”. All on Facebook. It’s very hard to cite Facebook. Yes, it has. 100% has gone to roads and transit. > **[Is Jerry Brown 'diverting' 30 percent of new gas tax money?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/19/melissa-melendez/jerry-brown-proposing-divert-30-percent-new-gas-ta/)** > > Drivers in California will start paying a higher gas tax this fall, as part of a bill signed by Gov. Jerry Brown to rais ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/35 "2018-10-18T03:23:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, because that’s is what I read. Diatribes about Governor Brown giving all the tax money to fund projects for 'the gays" and “illegals”. All on Facebook. It’s very hard to cite Facebook. > > Yes, it has. 100% has gone to roads and transit. > [PolitiFact | Is Jerry Brown 'diverting' 30 percent of California's new gas tax money?](https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/may/19/melissa-melendez/jerry-brown-proposing-divert-30-percent-new-gas-ta/) Hard to cite Facebook? What page was it under? I’m really curious who all these horrible people are. Last time I checked, “the gays” use gasoline and might not be happy about the tax as well. I welcome their support for Prop 6. Again, I’d be curious how you would justify mislabeling Prop 6? It was a grassroots initiative? I gathered signatures myself to get it on the ballot. As for your cite, it does not state 100% goes to the roads. It also doesn’t mention what has happened to the preexisting high gas taxes which are diverted to the abusive pensions. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/36 "2018-10-18T03:28:13Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Last time I checked, “the gays” use gasoline and might not be happy about the tax as well. I’m gay, and I’m okay with the gas tax. Cheap gas doesn’t do me any good if there aren’t any driveable roads left in the state. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/37 "2018-10-18T04:05:24Z")
Why year round DST? It wouldn’t get light in the morning until 8:00 to 830am and that would seriously mess with my mornings. I think it taking the change into November is far too long as I am cranky by the dark mornings. So what it would be lighter for one hour more during my commute home. What sort of outdoor daytime activities am I doing after work? I expect it to be dark in the early evenings in the winter, but not in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/38 "2018-10-18T04:36:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why year round DST? It wouldn’t get light in the morning until 8:00 to 830am and that would seriously mess with my mornings. I think it taking the change into November is far too long as I am cranky by the dark mornings. > > So what it would be lighter for one hour more during my commute home. What sort of outdoor daytime activities am I doing after work? I expect it to be dark in the early evenings in the winter, but not in the morning. It’s matter of preference obviously. I prefer it the other way. We’ll see what the majority thinks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/39 "2018-10-18T04:50:18Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Hard to cite Facebook? What page was it under? I’m really curious who all these horrible people are. Last time I checked, “the gays” use gasoline and might not be happy about the tax as well. I welcome their support for Prop 6. > > Again, I’d be curious how you would justify mislabeling Prop 6? It was a grassroots initiative? I gathered signatures myself to get it on the ballot. > > As for your cite, it does not state 100% goes to the roads. It also doesn’t mention what has happened to the preexisting high gas taxes which are diverted to the abusive pensions. Look, I am just saying what some opponents said about it on Facebook. It isn’t “mislabeled”. “ELIMINATES CERTAIN ROAD REPAIR AND TRANSPORTATION FUNDING. REQUIRES CERTAIN FUEL TAXES AND VEHICLE FEES BE APPROVED BY THE ELECTORATE. INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.” which is exactly what is does. [https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article219576845.html](https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article219576845.html) \*That California election ballot ‘correction’ you got for Prop. 6 isn’t from the government With mail ballots set to arrive at California voters’ homes starting this week, the gas tax repeal campaign recently sent out 2 million leaflets that “correct” the ballot title and description for its initiative. The official ballot title for Proposition 6 — which begins “Eliminates Certain Road Repair and Transportation Funding” — has caused much consternation for its supporters…“The correct title for Proposition 6 should read: Proposition 6: Gas Tax Repeal Initiative,” the mailer states… “It’s inappropriate to craft a fake message from the registrar of voters,” Cate said. “It frankly smells of desperation.”\* Prop 6 does not “repeal the gas tax”. There are about six “gas tax”, and ti does roll back one of those. No, 100% goes to roads and transit, just like it is supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808/40 "2018-10-18T04:52:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m gay, and I’m okay with the gas tax. Cheap gas doesn’t do me any good if there aren’t any driveable roads left in the state. Sure, and I expect gay people would vote both ways. In no way do I think that “the gays” as the FB screeds said, have anything special to do with Prop 6. The point is, that some FB opponents of Prop 6 were saying that Gov Brown was taking all that “gas tax’ money to 'spend on illegals and the gays”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-propositions-2018/822808.md?page=3)