California Special Election 2005

Great Debates
61

I just received of those phone calls—the recorded message asking you to vote a certain way in the election. Surprisingly, it was from John McCain!

The only issue he weighed in on was Prop 77, the redistricting. He is strongly in favor of it. I was going to vote for it anyway, but I thought it was interesting that a Pol from another state would get involved.

I personally think this is the easiest decision to make. Incumbents already win reelection way to often. How can anyone possibly be against this? Think about it. It CAN"T be any worse. What could possibly be worse than the lnes be drawn (and selectiing the voters) by the person who is trying to get reelected? Am I missing something? I mean aside for the argument some have that ALL props are bad.

62

As a member of the education system, this is the silliest, frankly most assinine rant I’ve read in a while. Most principals are dedicated professionals who step up to fill a slot that, frankly, I can’t imagine most people wanting, even given the higher pay. Parents make their lives miserable, teachers usually cause them headaches, kids are kids, and their own bosses (superintendants) are no picnic to deal with, either. Contrary to your assertion, “tenure” isn’t just handed out to people the principal likes; I work in a school where the principal gave a teacher “tenure” despite some misgivings about her abilities because there was no specific reason not to that had shown up. Upon receiving it, she promptly lost what professionalism she had, and as a result, the principal is forced to document what he can in the hopes of someday being able to have her removed. Trust me that she was never an ass-kisser, nor were her politics in some sort of mythical alignment with his. :rolleyes:

If you are in the education system as a teacher yourself, I’d suggest getting a new job. You sound quite bitter about it. :frowning:

63

He’s been appearing in TV commercials endorsing prop 77 for some time now. I have to admit my first response was: Hey, this is our election!

64

Bob, as a former Californian, I share your disgust with the initiative system there. I wanted to maim someone the year we had the multiple competing insurance reform initiatives (anyone still talk about how much they “saved” under Prop. 103?).

Still, the initiative processin California is driven primarily by the refusal of the State Legislature to actually solve issues. Run by the Democrats for the Democrats and their pocket special interests (can we say Trial Lawyers? I thought you could…), they often end up totally unable to address issues that are important; the automobile insurance pricing situation of the 1990’s was a classic example.

The initiative process resulted from the efforts of the Progressive Republicans in the early 1900’s, and was necessitated by the same cause: refusal of the state’s legislators to address reform issues. It’s a hard won privilege that is all-too-often abused any more. But really, do you see the State Legislature passing a law to hand over redistricting to some other body? Or do you prefer to have a total lack of competitive elections? :eek:

65

Yeah, me too.

Proposition 13 (Exhibit A in BobT’s case agasint all propositions, by the way) limited the tax money that could be raised through property taxes. It also rolled back the rate of such taxes and the assessments at the time.

The current proposition attempts to deal with the relatively common result of Proposition 13: The Legislature and the Governor get into pissing matches over what they think is “too little money.” It’s usually not, of course, but given the dynamics of a state legislature run by Democrats for several decades, it’s not too surprising that this is the outcome. Not certain that a Republican legislature with a Democratic governor would be better, mind you…

So they are not the same at all, but they are related in a way.

66

That was my reaction too. “Hey Johnny (McCain, not you), you have a whole state of your own to play with stay out of mine”.

67

Yeah, I’m rather confused as to what the hell McCain has to do with…well anything here.

McCain *totally * served Wapner! It’s ON. :smiley:

And anybody- what the hell is going on with 80?

68

So a doctor can’t give your minor daughter an a aspirin or pierce her ears without your permission but he can suck a fetus out of her uterus without you ever knowing about it? I think our priorities are out of place.

69

Actually it’s a continuation of his vedetta against teachers for being so active against him during the recall election. It may be petty, but the first rule of politics is: if you’re going to be vocal about your political views, make sure you’re on the winning side.

70

I’m voting:

73: No. Why add regulations to a specific medical procedure when other state laws already cover it? If you don’t want minors having medical procedures done without notification/allowing them to override a parent’s wish for a medical procedure, have the current law repealed and a new one writted. Law bandaids suck.

74: No. Public school teachers in CA don’t get real, college-like tenure in the first place, and arbitrary numbers help nobody. Face it, for a lot of districts in CA, it’s hard enough to get teachers as it is. Extending the amount of time it takes to get some measure of job security certainly isn’t going to help with the recruiting of good teachers.

75: No. I wouldn’t actually mind this prop, except the advertisements the pro-75 people have been running are complete and utter lies (hi, union members can already opt-out, they aren’t forced at all) and that pisses me off.

76: No. Principle vote. Worried enough about the budget to make a prop on it, not worried enough to force the state to spend a metric @#$%load of money for a special election in an off-year.

77: No. I don’t like people having their paws in any part of government where they aren’t accountable to the populace, even if it is a well-meaning initiative. District fixing needs to be fixed, but this isn’t the right way.

78: No. Expecting pharma companies to reduce prices on their own out of the kindness of their hearts with a nice proposition is abso@#$%inglutely stupid.

79: Yes. I don’t agree with a some of the prop, but I happen to work with the poor elderly a lot (I’ll be driving quite a few of them to the polls tomorrow), and giving a large customer like MediCal the ability to negotiate prices will end up saving these people money in the long one. Even if some of the more expensive ones are dropped, overall, money will be saved for both the state and those seniors.

80: Yes. Deregulation gave us price fixing and rolling blackouts. Worst experiment the state has ever made.

And if you’re in the Antelope Valley area, Steve Fox for College Board.

71

I am voting exactly the same on all propositions, for just about the exact same reasons.

72

As a parent myself, I have more faith in the parent’s capacity for decision making than any adult bf/pimp/molester/prom date…and that’s if the parents actually make the decision for her which is not always the case. I would like to think that the mother especially would be the best supportive person a daughter could have in the whole world…quite possibly a mother who’s had an abortion herself and would be the best ally in helping her cope with the pregnancy…abortion or no abortion. If the parents are not of this caliber, then the minor does have an out through the court system…and I would think that the courts would realize that this is a time sensitive issue and not postpone this for months…that would be useless.

73

Whoosh.
My point was, you made it sound as if every girl under the age of 18 who presents for an abortion is probably there because her irresponsible pimp boyfriend is forcing her to have one. Either that, or her slimeball father raped her.

When in actuality, the most likely scenario is: girl becomes pregnant, makes her own choice as to whether or not to have the procedure performed, and then carries out that choice. Can you explain to me why you feel she shouldn’t be given the responsibility to make her own choice? As, that is effectively what passage of this law would mean.

Also, her right to privacy under the Privacy Act of 1974 is now being negated; the physician must inform her parents of her diagnosis, even against her wishes.

74

Ditto, though since I went to the ballots this morning, I must apply the past tense…

75

I voted for 75. I was originally planning to vote NO on all of them, but a friend of mine who’s a teacher convinced me otherwise. Basically, his argument was that, while you can opt out of union membership, many people don’t know this, and it should be an opt-in organization in the first place. For those interested, you can see our discussion in the comments on this entry in my weblog.

A slight hijack: Are there any polls available? Which of these are expected to pass?

76

Lots of polling has been done; none of the propositions were leading as of the last one I read (4-5 days ago). Looks like the election may be a complete waste of time.

A general rant on California politics:

Nothing will get better until the constitution is amended, so that a budget can pass with a simple 50% majority. This is why we deadlock every year, and wind up sweeping all differences under the rug.

The proposition process is a joke. Hiram Johnson is spinning in his grave.

You gotta love proposition advertising, though. Every proposition has lopsided backing – the voter will be barraged by ads saying “NO ON 99!!!” for 3 months prior to the election…then 2 days before, a few feeble “yes on 99, if it’s not too much trouble…” commercials will appear. This is what passes for a reasoned debate on the issues.

And every proposition, if you believe the advertising, is only on the ballot for the benefit of one or more of the following EEEEVILLLL groups:

Bureaucrats
Trial-lawyers
Unions
“Politicians”
Out-of-state Interests

77

I’ve been whooshed?!? :smack:

The daughter still has the responsible decision to abort or not; the prop doesn’t ask for parent’s permission or position on the matter. She can still approach the court to show that informing the parents could be dangerous to her. I just think that the parents would be more helpful than harmful in assisting their daughter through this period in her life, just like other medical or surgical procedures that she may have experienced through the years…YMMV. You may think I’m putting too much faith into the parents, but I have seen on 5 occassions that the parents were helpful and none where the parents were harmful towards their respective daughters. I wish every parent could read this before they find out that their daughter is pregnant.

From Deborah Davis - http://www.pregnancy.org/article.php?sid=1686:

78

I beleive that currently a doctor can give your minor daughter an aspririn without parental consent.
From the voter guide analysis section

79

Yes on 75 (Screw the unions - opt-in is the only fair way)
Yes on 77
Yes on 80.
A resounding No on all the rest, and a rejection of everybody up for re-election to my school board.

80

There seems to have been concern about a certain part of Prop 73 (the notification waiver petition). Excerpts from the text of the proposition (bolding added):

I doubt at this point if it’ll change anyone’s mind (and I also doubt this one will pass) but it might put some people’s minds at ease. Personally, I no longer vote YES on anything without reading the entire text of it.