# California synagogue shooting (breaking) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 27, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143 "2019-04-27T20:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/21 "2019-04-28T12:48:50Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > It is posts like this that keep me at the SDMB. I learn a lot here! Here’s some more interesting stuff about Jews and Passover. 🙂 [Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson, The Ethical Significance of Passover](https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/8854?lang=bi) \*[Note from ThelmaLou: “Mitzrayim” means Egypt where the Israelites were enslaved. Passover celebrates their liberation, as in the movie _The Ten Commandments_ with Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston. But the word \*mitzrayim \*means “a narrow place” and can metaphorically refer to any place-- physical, emotional, ethical-- that one becomes stuck in and struggles to get through.] \* > [@](#): > > …In fact, one of the most frequently repeated explanations for a variety of laws in the Torah is “…for you were strangers in Mitzrayim, and the Holy One liberated you with an outstretched hand.” Because we were strangers in Mitzrayim, we know what it is like to feel unwanted or unnoticed. We know the pain of silent rejection and the courage it takes to enter a room where you know no one. > > This is no theoretical issue. Each Shabbat, and at every communal event, strangers summon up their courage to engage the Jewish community. Maybe they need to say Kaddish for a loved one, or perhaps they just want to learn or join in a social action initiative. Perhaps they don’t feel they fit the mold (a vision of some perfect family perhaps). Whatever the reason, we always have strangers in our midst. > > Who is supposed to greet those strangers? Whose job is it to make sure they have the right handouts, that they are not sitting alone, that someone is there to talk with them and to introduce them to people already established there? > > Each one of us was a stranger in Mitzrayim, and each one of us must take the initiative to ensure that no stranger ever feels unwelcome in any Jewish gathering. The first step, then, is to realize that if you don’t look for strangers, no one else will either. If you don’t get up to say, “hello, may I sit with you?” no one else will either. It all depends on you. > … ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/22 "2019-04-28T14:32:16Z")
Per an account from a member of their congregation, the shooter was armed with multiple magazines, which he failed to use in his rifle. He didn’t use them, because a member of the congregation was armed, and began shooting at the criminal as soon as the congregation realized they were being attacked. Basically, the shooter got a few shots off—I did not read how many, but less than a magazine, maybe only a few—as soon as he walked into the front door. This was sufficient to inflict a fatal wound on one of the worshippers, and various serious wounds on three other people. AIUI, the rabbi lost some fingers from a bullet. As soon as the criminal realized he was getting shot at, he ran back to his car and drove away. I do not know if the criminal was wounded, though I understand his vehicle was hit, and its rear window punctured. This very easily could have been a lot worse. I mourn for the victims. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/23 "2019-04-28T20:48:44Z")
Are you sure about that account? Because the way I heard it, the shooter’s gun _jammed_, which is why he stopped firing. He wasn’t shot at until _after_ he left the synagogue, by an off-duty Border Patrol agent who must have known something was amiss. So far as I know, no one in the congregation was armed or fired upon the shooter. (Which is not to say it’s impossible for someone to be armed at a worship service - in my area there are 4-5 people who have concealed carry licenses who are permitted to carry weapons to services as part of the security for the synagogues. I just haven’t heard of any in the Poway Chabad case.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/24 "2019-04-28T21:36:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I wonder if he was influenced by the New York Times anti-Semitic cartoon published a couple of days ago. Pitiful. Other than the yarmulke perched on the ferret on Donald’s head, the cartoon is on point and accurate. Donald is Mr. Magoo being led on a leash wielded by Bibi. It’s fortunate that there was only one person killed and that they caught the guy alive so we can see what the motivation was. It’s also fortunate that it wasn’t a Muslim or minority shooter, the last thing we need is something to fire up the MAGAbots. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/25 "2019-04-28T21:37:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Are you sure about that account? > > Because the way I heard it, the shooter’s gun _jammed_, which is why he stopped firing. He wasn’t shot at until _after_ he left the synagogue, by an off-duty Border Patrol agent who must have known something was amiss. So far as I know, no one in the congregation was armed or fired upon the shooter. > > (Which is not to say it’s impossible for someone to be armed at a worship service - in my area there are 4-5 people who have concealed carry licenses who are permitted to carry weapons to services as part of the security for the synagogues. I just haven’t heard of any in the Poway Chabad case.) I heard about it from a close friend of the deceased—she was a guest of the friend and his family the previous evening, as his daughter had an important school function the night before—who obtained his account of the events from talking to other witnesses who were present at the time of the shooting. The off-duty CBP officer was not, an official synagogue security officer, standing a post at the time of the shooting. He was there worshipping. I am not surprised that our media have chosen to tell the story in a way that would deny the agency of any person present at the shooting, that they could possibly take responsibility for their safety in any affirmative way. But rather were spared by fate. My understanding of the situation is that the off-duty CBP officer, praying at the synagogue, did not return fire with his service weapon, but rather a revolver provided by another member. The shooter may very well have suffered a weapon malfunction; it by itself though did not cause him to end his attack. FWIW, a weapon malfunction by the shooter would not usually cause the shooter to flee. Most malfunctions in a semi-automatic rifle can be cured by merely manually cycling another cartridge, or at worse, changing magazines. I guess the extractor could have torn off the case rim, or he could have had a squib round, both of which would require a more involved procedure to fix. In that case, one would expect a suicidal attacker to transition to another weapon, which he might not have had, of course. Yet one more way he failed at his sick, perverse cause. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/26 "2019-04-28T21:43:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Pitiful. Other than the yarmulke perched on the ferret on Donald’s head, the cartoon is on point and accurate. Donald is Mr. Magoo being led on a leash wielded by Bibi. > > It’s fortunate that there was only one person killed and that they caught the guy alive so we can see what the motivation was. It’s also fortunate that it wasn’t a Muslim or minority shooter, the last thing we need is something to fire up the MAGAbots. The cartoon is a piece of anti-Semitic shit, that even ten years ago, would never have been dreamed of being placed within the pages of The Old Gray Lady. I do not obviously think the cartoon influenced the shooter in any way. That said, Trump’s rhetoric has been blamed for encouraging violence like that committed by the guy in Charlottesville who deliberately drove into a crowd; it doesn’t seem out of line to ask whether anti-Semitic propaganda—in the New York Times!—contributed in some minuscule way to this piece of anti-Semitic violence. I am concerned that the Times running such a cartoon constitutes a bellwether in American domestic politics, and not a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/27 "2019-04-28T22:06:07Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I heard about it from a close friend of the deceased… Did this friend mention that the victim, Lori K., who apparently tried to shield others from the killer, (clearly a hateful vile piece of human garbage) is supposedly a staunch Conservative and a fervent supporter of Trump, because that is what I read this morning, but have not seen any mention of it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/28 "2019-04-28T22:26:20Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I am not surprised that our media have chosen to tell the story in a way that would deny the agency of any person present at the shooting, that they could possibly take responsibility for their safety in any affirmative way. …the “media” will “tell the story” with whatever facts they can verify. That they haven’t told the story you are telling in this thread suggests (with all due respect to this alleged “close friend of the deceased”) a lack of independent verification on your part, and says nothing about the media at all. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/29 "2019-04-28T23:28:45Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I heard about it from a close friend of the deceased—she was a guest of the friend and his family the previous evening, as his daughter had an important school function the night before—who obtained his account of the events from talking to other witnesses who were present at the time of the shooting. Look, I don’t mean to disparage anyone, but that does sound very much like a “friend of a friend” account. Which is not to claim the account I related is any more accurate, as I wasn’t personally there, either. > [@](#): > > The off-duty CBP officer was not, an official synagogue security officer, standing a post at the time of the shooting. He was there worshipping. Er… “off duty” would imply he wasn’t working. And, as I stated, in my own area we have people who conceal carry to services and community events. Perhaps you assumed I somehow meant paid security or employed security and i’m sorry if that wasn’t clear - they’re community members there to worship, take part in community events, etc. who carry _in addition to_ the formal, uniformed security provided by the local police department(s). The TV news seems to be making a big deal about this sort of thing, as if it’s something new. At least among the Jews it’s not. In general they’d prefer a world where such things were completely unnecessary but security, including armed security, is nothing new in that community. > [@](#): > > I am not surprised that our media have chosen to tell the story in a way that would deny the agency of any person present at the shooting, that they could possibly take responsibility for their safety in any affirmative way. Um… an off-duty Border Patrol guy opens fire on an active shooter and that’s somehow denying the “agency” of someone present? Where did you think the Off Duty Guy was shooting from? Mars? Of course he was there. And I’d say shielding the children, getting them to safety, getting other people out of the room was just as much taking “responsibility for their safety” as opening fire on a shooter would be. > [@](#): > > But rather were spared by fate. I’d say it was a lucky break that the shooter’s AR-15 jammed when and how it did. Don’t deny the agency of fate, here, either! > [@](#): > > My understanding of the situation is that the off-duty CBP officer, praying at the synagogue, did not return fire with his service weapon, but rather a revolver provided by another member. Ah, so someone else was carrying at the Passover services… > [@](#): > > The shooter may very well have suffered a weapon malfunction; it by itself though did not cause him to end his attack. No, but it sure slowed him down, which is a good thing. Why deny a lucky break? Or incompetence on the part of the little wannabe-Nazi? > [@](#): > > FWIW, a weapon malfunction by the shooter would not usually cause the shooter to flee. Most malfunctions in a semi-automatic rifle can be cured by merely manually cycling another cartridge, or at worse, changing magazines. You’re assuming that Little Wannabe-Nazi actually knew what the frack he was doing with that deadly weapon - frankly, I’m not impressed by this guy. Maybe he jammed the gun and panicked instead of clearing the jam. To which I say _good_, it’s probably the only case in history where a gun in the hands of an idiot was a good thing. > [@](#): > > In that case, one would expect a suicidal attacker to transition to another weapon, which he might not have had, of course. Yet one more way he failed at his sick, perverse cause. Why do you think he was suicidal? Aside from being pretty clear in his manifesto (which I had the misfortune to accidentally encounter on line in partial form) that he was NOT suicidal, did NOT intended to kill himself, and contemplated a potential outcome of life in prison, the dork _called 911 himself and turned himself in_. Whatever this loser was, he was NOT a suicidal terrorist. I dunno, maybe when his gun jammed, he totally panicked or something. The only thing I’m certain of is that for those involved it was a terrifying and confusing situation, which might have something to do with why there’s more than one account of how things occurred. I expect that will be cleared up in a few more days. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/30 "2019-04-28T23:48:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The timing seemed plausible to me, but if he started planning it weeks ago, then the NYT anti-Semitic cartoon wouldn’t have been the impetus. You do know that it was (as mentioned above), only in the _ **International Edition** _, which, as described, is sold internationally. C’mon HD, if you’re going to spread hearsay and innuendo like Rick Kitchen does on occasion, at least bother to absorb what you are reading… And I’m not as fussy as snoe, so here’s the cartoon if you haven’t found it already: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-times-apologizes-for-printing-netanyahu-cartoon-with-anti-semitic-tropes/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-times-apologizes-for-printing-netanyahu-cartoon-with-anti-semitic-tropes/) Frankly, IMHO, when I lived overseas and read British newspapers, they could be a whole lot rougher than that… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/31 "2019-04-29T00:46:43Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Did this friend mention that the victim, Lori K., who apparently tried to shield others from the killer, (clearly a hateful vile piece of human garbage) is supposedly a staunch Conservative and a fervent supporter of Trump, because that is what I read this morning, but have not seen any mention of it elsewhere. OMG! How \*could \*they omit such all-important information as to the political affiliation of the victim? How do they sleep at night? How, I ask you? I see a right wing Facebook meme in the making here, on the same line as the 11 Marines who died _last week_ with no mention anywhere (actually more like 7 years but who cares when outrage is concerned). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/32 "2019-04-29T01:13:11Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > You do know that it was (as mentioned above), only in the _ **International Edition** _, which, as described, is sold internationally. > > C’mon HD, if you’re going to spread hearsay and innuendo like Rick Kitchen does on occasion, at least bother to absorb what you are reading… Yes, I’m well aware of the edition. I have no doubt it’s not overly difficult to find / access here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/33 "2019-04-29T01:13:39Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Did this friend mention that the victim, Lori K., who apparently tried to shield others from the killer, (clearly a hateful vile piece of human garbage) is supposedly a staunch Conservative and a fervent supporter of Trump, because that is what I read this morning, but have not seen any mention of it elsewhere. And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the temperature of spit in Wichita or anything else for that matter? I can’t keep up anymore - does the shooter get extra points for shooting a Trump supporter/conservative or does that deduct from his score? Is her political affiliation more or less important than her religion or her gender or the fact she was alive last week and is dead now? Did you test the political affiliation of the rabbi who was shot in both hands and lost a finger, or the young man who, despite being shot in the leg, continued to shepherd children out of harm’s way while trying to shield them with his own, bleeding body? Why the hell are you even bringing up political affiliations in this thread anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/34 "2019-04-29T13:35:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The apparent shooter is a student at the university in where I teach - California State University, San Marcos. [President Karen S. Haynes’s statement](https://news.csusm.edu/poway-shooting) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/35 "2019-04-29T14:24:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, I’m well aware of the edition. I have no doubt it’s not overly difficult to find / access here in the US. I’ve only seen it in Europe. It has never come up in any Google searches I’ve made. And I get the NY Times in California. He might have gotten it in a search for anti-Semitic cartoons. And the Times, of course, is run by known anti-Semites. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/36 "2019-04-29T15:55:05Z")
I give my location as San Diego, because I live in Poway and figured no one would know where that it is. Now they do, in one of the most terrible ways possible. I don’t know why proximity to a hate crime makes it worse, but it does somehow. I guess it’s more personal in a way, although I’ve never been to that synagogue. I wasn’t even really aware that the area it’s in is part of Poway. In any case, I’m glad it wasn’t bad enough to get into Paul’s thread. I hope it’s the last one, but of course, it won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/37 "2019-04-29T21:12:54Z")
The shooter’s family has now released a statement through their lawyer, posted by the lawyer on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/klinedinstlaw/status/1122916569422618625/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1122916569422618625&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedailybeast.com%2Fpoway-synagogue-shooting-suspect-john-earnest-parents-call-him-evil). I can’t imagine what it must be like in their house right now. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143/38 "2019-04-30T00:41:07Z")
Link to _New York Times_ editorial by Yisroel Goldstein: [A Terrorist Tried to Kill Me Because I Am a Jew. I Will Never Back Down.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/opinion/rabbi-chabad-poway-antisemitism.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage) The man has _chutzpah_. Good for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-synagogue-shooting-breaking/833143.md?page=1)