# CALIFORNIA the DUMBEST state in the Union **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239 "2003-10-08T06:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/101 "2003-10-08T18:48:15Z")
If you think Californians had a tough time voting for their next governor, check out these guys [running for mayor of New Bedford, CT](http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/09-03/09-30-03/a01lo221.htm). [quote] [ul][li]James Irons, 56, is a convicted drunken driver whose wife took out a restraining order against him and who has at least four defunct businesses that lost their state charters. [_]Michael Janson, 54, is a perennial candidate making his seventh run for the office. Today he is a seafood salesman hawking scallops, salmon and swordfish to local restaurants. He also runs a golf tournament at the Whaling City Country Club that last year used the proceeds to offer five free memberships to junior golfers, he said. [_]Michael Montagano, 31, is a self-described schizophrenic who lives in a transitional home for the mentally ill. The home is designed to help him find work, he said. Mr. Montagano has been unemployed for four to five months and has been turned down for jobs at supermarkets and Wal-Mart, he said. [_]Michael Zaritt, 62, is a perennial candidate whose campaign slogan is “Throw the clowns out!” He lives without a phone to save money, he said, and is waiting for his Social Security benefits to “kick in.” [_]Write-in candidate Raimundo Delgado acknowledges he was recently involuntarily committed at St. Luke’s Hospital by family members. He says his problems began when he was persecuted while fighting for the freedom of the East Timorese, but he is still more than capable of bringing a fresh vision to the job of mayor in New Bedford, he said. [/ul][/li][/quote] ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/102 "2003-10-08T18:54:08Z")
I voted against the recall, but now that Arnold’s won, I wish him luck. He’s gonna need it. My only gripe (at the moment, anyway) with Governor Schwarzenegger is that now I have to put up with three years of him pronouncing the state’s name with _five_ syllables. Arnold, there’s only **four** syllables in “California”! Cal-a-forn-ah, not Cal-ee-for-nee-ah! Not sure if this will be more annoying than Bush’s “Noo-cue-lar”… And I wonder if any of the women who came forth about his sexual assault incidents will press charges now. If the incidents really did happen, I think they should step forward and make their case(s). ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/103 "2003-10-08T19:00:44Z")
Hmm. The curse of the smilies striles again ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/104 "2003-10-08T19:05:38Z")
I’m really having a problem swallowing the whole “lesser of two evils” or “most electable” rationale for voting for some egomanical, drug abusing, actor whose only credentials are crappy movies and the fact he made money in real estate in California (shooting fish in a barrell). You had hundreds of people on the ballot and you couldn’t vote for one who met your political ideology? Or are you just voting for a guy because he’s electable and you want to be popular? I honestly don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/105 "2003-10-08T19:14:38Z")
**Weirddave** I’m going to try to contain my anger at your outrageous post and calmly explain to you that you are simply misguided and wrong to assume that just because these women didn’t press charges at the time, that the events didn’t occur. You are also mistaken to accuse me of “buying the accuser’s story lock, stock and barrel without any proof” – as I pointed out above – I HAVE PROOF DIRECTLY FROM THE PERPETRATOR’S OWN MOUTH. I might not believe one woman. I might not even believe 2 women. But 15 different women AND an admission from the PERPETRATOR is enough evidence for me to KNOW for a fact that it happened. And being sexually harrassed is NOT “shameful” to the victim. It’s HARMFUL to the victim. I wasn’t “embarrassed” when I was sexually harrassed by a previous boss – I was outraged. And eventually fired. No, I never bothered to waste my time pressing formal charges. And it never would have come up, either, but when the motherfucker tried to deny my unemployment benefits, by claiming I was fired for misconduct associate with my work, you can bet I spoke up _then_. The judge in the hearing I was granted found enough evidence to support the truth of my claim and they reinstated my benefits and that was the end of that. But since I didn’t press charges, I guess I was a liar, huh? Sorry, try again. You have NO CLUE how competitive the movie industry out here is. You have NO CLUE how difficult it is for a woman to prove harrassment, especially against a man as rich and powerful as The Gropenator. You don’t know the FIRST THING about sexual harrassment, because you’ve never been a victim of it. Yet you dare to imply that victims should use it to get rich when it happens, and if they don’t, well, they must be lying. I mean, if a woman could’ve gotten rich suing when it happened, but didn’t bother to try, then she MUST be lying about it – who wouldn’t want to get rich that way!!! :rolleyes: He is HUGE, muscular and strong. He COMMANDS those sets. He is PHYSICALLY intimidating. But you don’t even bother to consider that women might actually be AFRAID of him. That they might be AFRAID of how a “rich and powerful” man such as Arnold Schwartzenegger could ruin their careers if they dared speak out against him. He touched these women inappropriately in a work environment. He ADMITTED it. He chalked it up to “playfulness,” not giving a flying fuck how it affected the women he was doing it to. NOW that it’s become public, he’s sorry he “offended” them. It makes me so angry I want to gouge his eyes out. That you don’t find THAT disturbing is, well, disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/106 "2003-10-08T19:18:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*I think it’s a form of penis envy between the states **sven** We (Texas) put forth our biggest prick > > California’s just trying to outdo us. > > Okay, New York, Florida…anyone else want to try to beat our pricks? \*\* I thought Ms. Clinton was sporting a pretty mighty strap-on herself, she’s definitely in the biggest prick race… ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/107 "2003-10-08T19:22:16Z")
well, actually no. he didn’t admit it. unless there’s more you’re not quoting. He said he did things that might have offended people. How does that equal an admission of Sexual Harassment. outside of bizarro world that is. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/108 "2003-10-08T19:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\ ***Weirddave** I’m going to try to contain my anger at your outrageous post and calmly explain to you that you are simply misguided and wrong to assume that just because these women didn’t press charges at the time, that the events didn’t occur. You are also mistaken to accuse me of “buying the accuser’s story lock, stock and barrel without any proof” – as I pointed out above – I HAVE PROOF DIRECTLY FROM THE PERPETRATOR’S OWN MOUTH. I might not believe one woman. I might not even believe 2 women. But 15 different women AND an admission from the PERPETRATOR is enough evidence for me to KNOW for a fact that it happened. > > And being sexually harrassed is NOT “shameful” to the victim. It’s HARMFUL to the victim. I wasn’t “embarrassed” when I was sexually harrassed by a previous boss – I was outraged. And eventually fired. No, I never bothered to waste my time pressing formal charges. And it never would have come up, either, but when the motherfucker tried to deny my unemployment benefits, by claiming I was fired for misconduct associate with my work, you can bet I spoke up _then_. The judge in the hearing I was granted found enough evidence to support the truth of my claim and they reinstated my benefits and that was the end of that. > > But since I didn’t press charges, I guess I was a liar, huh? Sorry, try again. > > You have NO CLUE how competitive the movie industry out here is. You have NO CLUE how difficult it is for a woman to prove harrassment, especially against a man as rich and powerful as The Gropenator. You don’t know the FIRST THING about sexual harrassment, because you’ve never been a victim of it. > > Yet you dare to imply that victims should use it to get rich when it happens, and if they don’t, well, they must be lying. I mean, if a woman could’ve gotten rich suing when it happened, but didn’t bother to try, then she MUST be lying about it – who wouldn’t want to get rich that way!!! :rolleyes: > > He is HUGE, muscular and strong. He COMMANDS those sets. He is PHYSICALLY intimidating. But you don’t even bother to consider that women might actually be AFRAID of him. That they might be AFRAID of how a “rich and powerful” man such as Arnold Schwartzenegger could ruin their careers if they dared speak out against him. > > He touched these women inappropriately in a work environment. He ADMITTED it. He chalked it up to “playfulness,” not giving a flying fuck how it affected the women he was doing it to. NOW that it’s become public, he’s sorry he “offended” them. It makes me so angry I want to gouge his eyes out. > > That you don’t find THAT disturbing is, well, disturbing. \*\* Right. It’s a hot button issue for you so proof is not needed for you to be outraged. I got it, thanks for clearing it up. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/109 "2003-10-08T19:36:17Z")
**5-HT** are you just willfully stupid or can’t you fucking read? SEVERAL women have come forward and said that he “inappropriately touched them.” THAT is the accusation. NOT that he was merely playful or rowdy. That he TOUCHED them INAPPROPRIATELY. He went ON RECORD as having said that " **some of the accusations made** against him were not true, but did not clarify **which**. He has admitted that he “ **behaved badly** sometimes,” and that “ **it is true** that… [he has] done things [he] thought were playful that **now** [he] recognize[s]… have offended people.” He is “ **deeply sorry** about that…” So what kind of fucking bizarro world are YOU living in that admitting that you have “behaved badly” in the workplace, acknowledging that at least **some** of the accusations against you are true, is not an admission? No wonder we’re saddled with the fucker as governor now. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/110 "2003-10-08T19:40:48Z")
**Dave** , you’re a waste of space. Your reading comprehension is NIL. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/111 "2003-10-08T19:48:04Z")
No Shayna, yours is. You get up on your goddamn high horses and absolutely refuse to listen to anything but your own preconceived notions. In that quote that you just posted, _nowhere is there an admission by Arnold that he touched anyone inapropriately_. You have flat out stated that he admitted doing so which is why you condem him, and this is quite simply not true. You’re _reading_ what you _want to see_ into it. ---
**Author:** ![Conflict\_of\_Interest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Conflict\_of\_Interest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conflict_of_Interest)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/112 "2003-10-08T19:57:59Z")
You can highlight those words all you want to. They still don’t say he touched anyone. Maybe you should get a dictionary and look up what the highlighted words mean. And of course there I’m sure you were saying the same things when Clinton was accused of sexual misconduct. Yea, right. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/113 "2003-10-08T20:00:38Z")
Weirddave, these were not only “last-minute” accusations. Arnie’s rep preceded him (and had been written about) long before he even hinted at running for office. The facts are that most women don’t file suit when incidents like this happen (particularly if they’re rich & famous) because it’s an uphill battle with no guarantee of a settlement and a high probability that you’ll have your reputation dragged through the mud and be rendered largely unemployable (especially in such an insular environment as Hollywood). Female victims pick the “lesser of two evils” if it means they can maintain their dignity and their careers. Very often it’s a “He said, She said” situation, but not all these women were anonymous, and several were professionals with no larger agenda. It’s one thing if the groper is a movie star you try to never work with again; it’s another if he’s running the state, ostensibly representing the concerns of millions of California women. I believe the accusations against him were credible and his “apology” disingenuous, since the only reason he did it was because he was running for office (again, if he was really _that_ sorry, he would’ve apologized when these stories first came out years ago). As for the OP, keep in mind that only 10% of the state’s population voted for the Actor (and I use that occupational term quite liberally). But with this idiotic recall procedure, that’s all it took. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/114 "2003-10-08T20:12:04Z")
Why don’t we refer back to the quote that you fucking posted **Shayna** > [@](#): > > “Yes, I have behaved badly sometimes, yes it is true that I was on rowdy movie sets … and I have done things I thought were playful that now I recognize that I have offended people,” Schwarzenegger said. > > He added, “I am deeply sorry about that and I apologize.” no where does he even address the actual accusations. he admits that he a) behaved badly b)was on rowdy sets c)did things that he considered playful that he recognizes now offended people. Sorry **Shayna** , as much as you want the admission to be there, it isn’t. Now, not saying that this looks good and reflects well on Arnold. I personally don’t like the man and wouldn’t have voted for him if I lived in CA. I think there’s a decent chance at least some of these accusations are true. But that doesn’t make it cool for you to just make shit up a puke it all over the boards. So there’s your quote, please show how it backs up your claim that: > [@](#): > > He went ON RECORD as having said that "some of the accusations made against him were not true, but did not clarify which. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/115 "2003-10-08T20:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ArchiveGuy \* > \*\*Weirddave, these were not only “last-minute” accusations. Arnie’s rep preceded him (and had been written about) long before he even hinted at running for office. The facts are that most women don’t file suit when incidents like this happen (particularly if they’re rich & famous) because it’s an uphill battle with no guarantee of a settlement and a high probability that you’ll have your reputation dragged through the mud and be rendered largely unemployable (especially in such an insular environment as Hollywood). Female victims pick the “lesser of two evils” if it means they can maintain their dignity and their careers. Very often it’s a “He said, She said” situation, but not all these women were anonymous, and several were professionals with no larger agenda. It’s one thing if the groper is a movie star you try to never work with again; it’s another if he’s running the state, ostensibly representing the concerns of millions of California women. I believe the accusations against him were credible and his “apology” disingenuous, since the only reason he did it was because he was running for office (again, if he was really _that_ sorry, he would’ve apologized when these stories first came out years ago). > > \*\* As I said, I am simply waiting to see what type of “proof” emerges. One of his alleged victems claims there were witnesses and photographs of the incident. The existance of these would go a very long way towards proving the charges. I’m not going to accept the charges just because someone makes them, that’s all I’m saying. The timing is suspitiously convienent for his political opponents. That’s not to say that the allegations are false because of the timing, far from it, in fact. It is something to consider when looking with an open mind at the whole situation. If Arnold is proven guilty of the carges, I’ll be amongst the first to condem him. I am not going to condem him out of hand simply because the charges were made, however. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/116 "2003-10-08T20:30:28Z")
Hey, don’t blame the [Bay Area.](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/10/08/MN45195.DTL) 8 of 9 counties voted No on the recall. San Francisco county (including me) voted 80% No, and every county greatly favored Cruz Bustamante over Ahnold. (Except Solano, where it was close). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/117 "2003-10-08T20:50:13Z")
Listen, dumbfucks, I’ll say this one last time and I’ll try to put it in as simple English as possible. 15 women have accused Arnold Schwartzenegger of **inappropriately touching them**. He has **admitted that some of those accusations are true**. He regrets having “offended” those women with his **bad behavior**. If you think a politician – especially one running for governor in an election this charged – is going to use the **exact words** , “inappropriate touching” when he’s clearly trying to WHITEWASH his actions, you’re fucking INSANE. Inappropriate touching _ **is** _ behaving badly. He’s sorry for his “bad behavior”. And this is a rhetorical question because I’m sick of you stupid morons, but what kind of fucking “bad behavior” do you think he was admitting to, if it wasn’t the inappropriate touching he was accused of, the charges for which he was directly answering to? Fucking DUH! Talk about puking all over the board. Idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/118 "2003-10-08T21:29:46Z")
As a disinterested observer, I applaud Ah-nold for not taking the “Ah. did. not. have. sexual relations. with. that. woman.” approach. He is being deliberately ambiguous, of course, but at least he’s not issuing a flat-out denial. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/119 "2003-10-08T22:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by honeydewgrrl \* > \*\*You get a gold star for Califorinia Geography…but the current location of the Capital is moot in regards to my argument. The voting power lies in the lower regions of the state, disproportionately. Northern California is simply a different beast than Southern California, on many different levels, yet the voters in Southern California can (and do) easily swing the vote their direction. Having two _seperate_ states (with their own individual Capitals) would better serve the needs of Northern California, imho. There would still be a an issue with the populated centers of the new Northern California state holding a disproportionate control of any vote, but your average Bay Area resident is more “in touch” with Northern California, in general, than your average resident of Los Angeles. \*\* You are confusing “Northern California” with “The Bay Area and Northern Coastal Regions”. The non-coastal regions of Northern Califonia are extremely conservative, like, Orange County conservative, populated by farmers and good ol’ boys with rifles in their gun racks. They voted overwhelmingly for the recall, and would generally be horrified to be told that the Berkeley and San Francisco voters were “in touch” with them. [Check out this map, and you’ll see what I mean.](http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/recall/mapN4.htm) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239/120 "2003-10-08T22:15:25Z")
Oh…Puh LEAAAAAAAAAAASE! As if “real” politicians that we all get to deal with on a regular basis, city, state and our “leaders” are any better? Okay. so. Y’all hired an actor. Whyncha just wait and see??? I fail to see how he could be worse than a.) what you HAD, b.) the caliber of “real” candidates we all have to try and weed through in just about any election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/california-the-dumbest-state-in-the-union/206239.md?page=7)