Does anyone know how many of those 11,789 murders were committed by individuals with legally-obtained, licensed handguns?
IOW, perhaps banning handguns isn’t a magic bullet to prevent handgun violence.
Thanks. I hadn’t known that open carry was already completely against the law, so that concealed carry was the only possibility left. That makes more sense than the way I was reading it.
Just to be clear, that is not my interpretation of Heller it is what the decision of the Ninth Circuit stated as a basis for its own. As best as I could state it from my reading and understanding, although IANAL, its rationale seems clear.
I purposefully left my opinion out of it as much as possible.
Capt
That’s not even half of how many people are killed in cars every year. And it’s a mere percentage of how many are killed by medical mistakes.
In a nation of roughly 314 million that is an insignificantly miniscule amount.
for corruption and cronyism. Rich, powerful, connected? You get your rights. Ordinary bloke? Not so much.
Good riddance, and good on the 9th for sticking up for the Constitution.
It doesn’t matter, since illegal guns are primarily stolen from people who own them legally. If they didn’t have those guns then criminals wouldn’t be able to steal them, or have much incentive to get guns otherwise.
Good for the 9th Circuit. The dissent simply defies logic. Consistent with Heller and McDonald, bearing arms is an individual right. How can one possibly have a right to bear arms if he may not do so either open or concealed?
The “good cause” requirement is absurd as applied to individual rights. Can anyone imagine being allowed to speak freely, go to church, refuse a search of his home, call witnesses on his behalf, obtain an abortion, or burn a flag only so long as he or she had a government permit and showed “good cause”?
It’s good to see the 2nd amendment having some meaning.
Cars and guns are not the same thing, in case that wasn’t obvious. Cars are made to transport people from one place to another. Guns are made to kill living things.
As for 11k plus deaths in the US every year, when already put in context of other similar nations, your statement has to be the single most stupid and loathsome statement I’ve ever seen on the SDMB, and that is a major accomplishment. Take a bow.
TSS, liberal proponent of gun owner rights.
So the people who get stabbed or clubbed to death are not “real people”? Or is it simply that their suffering doesn’t matter?
As far as other methods go, here’s one–actually enforce current laws, rather than watch people make straw purchases and then watch those criminals take those guns into Mexico.
Japan has essentially NO guns whatsoever. Guess what–their suicide rate is far, far higher than the U.S.
In addition, your comparison is flawed in another way. According to the FBI, more Americans are killed by knives, blunt objects, and even fists, than the number of gun deaths on your list.
Going yet further, the FBI says,
(emphasis added)
In other words, quit being so insanely stupid. (Fighting ignorance, and all that.)
It is only bad guys who get killed in violence, or good guys who have refused to arm themselves. That is why it is so easy to tell who the good guy and bad guy are. When you have a firearm, you do not need to carefully consider evidence and deliberate, you are the good guy.
On a more serious note, as long as we let the insane and criminals have guns, we are going to have these kinds of numbers. That and not treating the insane.
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. Guns are made to PROTECT living things–something that they do very successfully. Even the very lowest credible estimates of defensive gun uses are in the tens of thousands per year. Furthermore, the majority of such uses do not involve actually firing the gun. In most cases, simply showing it is enough.
You confuse human fear of guns with what their direct purpose is. Fear is indeed an indirect purpose, but when used and the trigger pulled, shoot to kill. When an insane lunatic with weapons goes into a school or a theater, he isn’t going there to deter and merely brandish. It’s never happened. He’s going to kill. Incidentally, in most jurisdictions, brandishing a weapon is a crime.
The reason the NRA and government do not allow weapons in conventions and courtrooms is because they know exactly what a lunatic with a gun can do before the armed good people respond. You would think, according to your logic, that the safest place to be with a firearm, or without, would be at an NRA convention protected by hundreds, if not thousands, of good guys with loaded guns. The NRA prohibits that. Or so I am told. It seems that the NRA fears to practice what it preaches.
I am for removing gun ownership from the insane and criminals.
Second-Commandment freaks argue that guns prevent homicides, and that your stats are just a residual backlash. Assuming a 10:1 ratio, the guns in England and Wales were ineffective, preventing a mere 540 homicides. The U.S. handguns prevented a whopping 117,890 homicides! Go, America! :eek:
Among teenagers, 11% of deaths are due to suicide, 13% murder, 1% accidental firearm discharge. A good Googler could break down teenage murder and suicides by method; but among the general population 2/3 of homicides are by gun, and at least half of successful suicides. “Insignificantly minisucle” will seem [checks forum] insensitive to the many parents of murdered teenagers.
I lived in the U.S.A. for several decades and don’t recall ever seeing a firearm brandished in anger. There’s a simple reason why America’s gun problem is invisible to many whites living a middle-class white lifestyle in wealthy mostly-white communities:
"Homicides are the number one cause of death for black and Hispanic teens. "
Always know when I’m winning an argument with a lib when they resort to name calling. Pointing out that 1/300th of 1% is not a large number is pure mathematics and fact, neither of which the left cares for.
The difference of cars and guns is, neither the U.S. Constitution nor the constitutions of every state innumerate the right to own/drive a car.
35k+ killed in auto wrecks every year is also a miniscule number but it’s over 3 times more than those killed with firearms. Yet nobody on the left is screaming and yelling about it. When one subtracts suicides (what greater control over ones own life than the decision to end it?) lawful self defense, and scumbags in the inner cities blowing each other away (WGAF?) overall meaningful "gun crimes"in America is quite low for a country with a zillion guns. You are far more apt to get struck by lightning or win a substantial amount in a lottery than be a victim of a mass shooting.
We don’t “let” criminals and the insane to have guns. But we do allow them to be free which makes it impossible to control their behavior. If criminals were hammered with the punishment they deserve (example: armed robbery carries a penalty of 40 years. Offenders rarely get more than 3 years) and institutionalized and medicated the truly insane (yes, against their will) 2 significant problems in America would be greatly diminished.
That’s easily identified as a cultural problem and not a gun problem.
Because guns are holy and we certainly can’t blame them for it. We’ll just blame the dead people instead. :rolleyes:
Guns make it far easier to kill, therefore they make any problems involving killing worse. Such as suicides and murders.
You would rather they jumped out a window or got bludgeoned with a hammer?.
They are much less likely to die without guns around.
And your link speaks of rifles not guns in general, even assuming it is accurate.
Flyer, your post was ok until the last bit. You cannot insult other posters in Great Debates. I’m issuing a warning here. Please don’t do so again.
No.
You have a constitutional right to stand up and speak against the mayor’s policies–but not in my living room, you don’t. That’s not remotely hypocritical.