# Caligula: yea or neigh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 10, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862 "2003-06-10T14:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/1 "2003-06-10T14:14:56Z")
Re: [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcaligula.html) > [@](#): > > Well, it all started when his throat felt a little hoarse . . . Just had to do it, din’tcha? Just _had_ to. Poor ol’ C. didn’t filly too well. He obviously was coming down with a colt! He was already gelding better, though. No mare puns to see here, laddie. Move along, now. RR ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/2 "2003-06-10T15:37:36Z")
**bibliophage** , I wasn’t quick enough to start a thread on your column but I wanted to jump in here to tell you that I thought you did a terrific job. Informative, well-researched, balanced, and humorous. Just out of curiosity, though: Graves was known as a classical scholar. Did he ever write about his sources for his books and what he drew directly out of them? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/3 "2003-06-10T17:51:18Z")
That means both I and Caligula have something in common: if they tried to tell my life story in porn-movie form it too would be a gross exageration. By the way, I’d once read that the floating bridge at Baiae was constructed so that Caligiula could fulfill a prophesy about being able to ride a horse accross the Bay Of Naples, and was done before he went crazy, as a politically calculated stunt. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/4 "2003-06-10T18:38:44Z")
**RiverRunner** : You, sire, are a dam foal. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Graves was known as a classical scholar. Did he ever write about his sources for his books and what he drew directly out of them? \*\* Not that I’m aware of. He mentions Seneca and Philo in the novels (and maybe Josephus?). It’s obvious Graves was well acquainted with Suetonius, Dio, and Tacitus too. Graves published a translation of Suetonius’s _Lives of the Caesars_ in 1957. You might want to check out the [I, Claudius Project](http://www.anselm.edu/internet/classics/I,CLAUDIUS/) and especially the “evidence charts” showing some of the sources for various events as depicted in the miniseries. Unfortunately they don’t include all of the relevant sources and they also manage to get some of the details wrong. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Slithy Tove_\*\* > I’d once read that the floating bridge at Baiae was constructed so that Caligiula could fulfill a prophesy about being able to ride a horse accross the Bay Of Naples\*\* That’s one of the explanation in Suetonius (the one he seems to put the most stock in). The prophesy was supposed to be by Tiberius’s astrologer Thrasyllus. Interestingly, Suetonius seems to reckon this incident among Caligula’s few “princely” accomplishments rather than his “monstrous” ones. It seems pretty insane to me. Other explanations include intimidating German, Celtic, or Parthian enemies, or simply surpassing the feat of Xerxes, who had bridged the Hellespont centuries earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Salieri2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Salieri2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salieri2)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/5 "2003-06-10T19:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Torture and castration (and the manufacture of substandard dog food). … Scribonius Proculus, according to Dio, was a senator (a man of parts presumably) who was hacked to pieces not by Caligula, nor on his direct orders, but by his fellow senators. His crime? He was accused of hating Caligula. (Robert Byrd, watch your back!) I suppose castration would be a logical part of being hacked to pieces, but no mention is made in the ancient sources of his genitals being fed to dogs, as depicted in the film. This bit made me laugh. Given what we in the US of A typically feed to dogs [rendered chicken feathers, ‘acceptable percentages’ of garbage, euthanized pets] I think a lot of dogs would be _thrilled_ to get a mouthful of, mm, what? Not Rocky Mountain Oysters…Mount Aetna Oysters? Best protein source they’d see in a month! Much info to be had at: [http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht2.html](http://www.doberdogs.com/foodcht2.html) “…man of parts.” BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA…! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/6 "2003-06-10T22:16:14Z")
**Bibliophage,** I have a question. Early in your fine report, you mention, I think, Camus’s play having been published in 1944 and not written until several years later. Was this a simple transposition, or did you mean it was not _performed_ until years later? I’m not error-pouncing, here; it’s just that your meaning is not clear. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/7 "2003-06-10T23:49:54Z")
It was published for the first time in 1944, and performed for the first time in 1945 in Paris. Camus had written a different version around 1938, but this earlier version was neither performed nor published. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/8 "2003-06-11T02:41:39Z")
I come to **bibliophage’s** defense! > [@](#): > > the play Caligula by Albert Camus (first published in 1944 but written several years earlier) Earlier, said he correctly! ---
**Author:** ![JMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@JMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JMark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/9 "2003-06-11T04:56:52Z")
In the matter of the treatment of Proculus in the movie “Caligula,” Bibliophage writes: “I suppose castration would be a logical part of being hacked to pieces, but no mention is made in the ancient sources of his genitals being fed to dogs, as depicted in the film.” I suspect this detail was inspired by Homer’s Odyssey, 22.474-477: ``` And they brought Melanthius up in front of the porch and courtyard, And they cut off his nose and ears with the pitiless bronze, And tore off his genitals, to feed them raw to the dogs, And lopped off his hands and feet in a spirit of anger. ``` They sure don’t make poems like they used to. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/10 "2003-06-11T05:33:43Z")
Has any consensus ever been reached on what exactly Caligula’s mystery illness in October 37 A.D. was? Joan Bos, in her entertaining [mini-biography](http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmonarchs/caligula/caligula_bio.htm) of Caligula from her Mad Monarchs series, believes it was encephalitis, but also suggests that epilepsy and/or schizophrenia could have been responsible for his unstable behavior. .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/11 "2003-06-11T15:53:26Z")
There’s no consensus, but there have been a lot of guesses. Encephalitis, epilepsy, or a nervous breakdown are frequently cited. Some modern historians dispute the popular notion that it was the illness that sent him into madness. They believe Caligula was already insane (or well on his way) before the illness struck. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JMark \* > **In the matter of the treatment of Proculus in the movie “Caligula,” Bibliophage writes: “I suppose castration would be a logical part of being hacked to pieces, but no mention is made in the ancient sources of his genitals being fed to dogs, as depicted in the film.” I suspect this detail was inspired by Homer’s Odyssey, 22.474-477** Thanks, and welcome to the SDMB. I read the Odyssey in translation a few years back but I don’t remember that part. I seem to have read a bowdlerized translation. The translation of Samuel Butler says “vitals”, not “genitals”. The Greek seems to be [symbol]mhdea[/symbol] (in the nominitive), which indeed means “genitals” according to [The Perseus Digital Library](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0135&layout=&loc=22.474). It’s good to know what the scene was inspired by, and I may have the report updated to reflect that. ---
**Author:** ![tourbot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tourbot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tourbot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/12 "2003-06-12T19:37:35Z")
Ok, so Caligula didn’t really make his horse a consul. But is it true that the later Emperor Heliogabulus did, as the poorly scanned comic book at [this site](http://www.holycow.com/dreaming/helio/helio16.html) attests? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/13 "2003-06-12T20:46:21Z")
\<\< And they brought Melanthius up in front of the porch and courtyard, And they cut off his nose and ears with the pitiless bronze, And tore off his genitals, to feed them raw to the dogs, And lopped off his hands and feet in a spirit of anger. They sure don’t make poems like they used to. \>. Yeah, nor do they make punishments like they used to. The Enron culprits, for instance, will probably get off with a fine and scolding. Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, **JMark** , glad to have you with us. A great first post! ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/14 "2003-06-13T02:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tourbot \* > \*\*Ok, so Caligula didn’t really make his horse a consul. But is it true that the later Emperor Heliogabulus did, as the poorly scanned comic book at [this site](http://www.holycow.com/dreaming/helio/helio16.html) attests? \*\* In researching the report, I did some cursory reading about Heliogabalus (a/k/a Elagabalus, a/k/a Antoninus a/ka Avitus, etc.) to see if any of the stories told about Caligula might have been inspired by his life. I didn’t find anything. The comic mentions [The Life of Antonius Heliogabalus](http://members.aol.com/heliogabby/bio/eng.htm) by by Aelius Lampridius. I just skimmed it but could find no mention of his making a horse consul. I have also skimmed the descriptions of his reign in [Dio, book 80](http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/80*.html) (also the end of book 79) and Herodian’s [History of the Empire from the Time of Marcus Aurelius](http://members.aol.com/heliogabby/bio/herodian.htm). I could find no mention of him making a horse consul in these books either. Maybe somebody else would have better luck finding the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Thayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bill\_Thayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Thayer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/15 "2003-06-13T13:52:07Z")
Bibliophage, you’re right. The comic book is mistaken: they meant Caligula, then transferred it to Heliogabalus; it was all so long ago, anyway. And no, despite countless print and other assertions that he did – just heard it on the History Channel 2 nights ago – Caligula did not make his horse a consul either. No one did. Let this whole thing serve as a salutary lesson: “I saw it in a book” is no guarantee of truth! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/16 "2003-06-13T14:36:10Z")
All of the puns in this thread are slightly off centaur, if you get my drift… ---
**Author:** ![snac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@snac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snac)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/17 "2003-06-13T20:45:27Z")
Yes, bosda, and it would behoof us to rein 'em in a bit before all the un-stable readers of this thread bridle at the thought. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/18 "2003-06-13T22:07:08Z")
**Snac** , I think you just committed funny cide. ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/19 "2003-06-14T16:44:43Z")
Scribonius Proculus, according to Dio, was a senator (a man of parts presumably) What does “man of parts” mean? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862/20 "2003-06-14T22:04:25Z")
From the OED definition of “part”: > [@](#): > > 1. A personal quality or attribute, natural or acquired, esp. of an intellectual kind (? as a constituent element of one’s mind or character, or ? as allotted to one by Providence: cf. gift, talent); almost always in pl. Abilities, capacities, talents. Usually with an adj. expressing excellence; also absol. = high intellectual ability, cleverness, talent. Now arch., rare in speech. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caligula-yea-or-neigh/180862.md?page=2)