# Calling all doctors! (or other medically minded-folk) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109 "2001-06-08T21:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/1 "2001-06-08T21:57:04Z")
Over in Ciy Gent’s thread entitled "[I now know what childbirth is like](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73633), the discussion has turned to what is more painful, passing a kidney stone versus childbirth. I’m not conducting a poll, I’m requesting information. What I’d like to know, is the average diameter of your typical birth canal, the average diameter of your urethra (is that right?), the average description of a kidney stone, and the average size of a newborn. I would contend (with absolutely no information at all - that’s why I’m here), that a kidney stone is going to be relatively larger in diameter as compared to the urethra, and it has the added “bonus” of not being exactly “smooth”. In fact, I don’t even know if information like this is obtainable. Thanks folks! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/2 "2001-06-09T13:38:20Z")
This information is in fact obtainable. > **[Google](https://www.google.com)** > > Celebrating the late We:wa! #GoogleDoodle Enjoy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/3 "2001-06-09T13:53:18Z")
Pain is relative. Trust me. I know. My relatives are a pain. \<\\>. I’d debate your allegation, with zero facts cause that’s the mood I’m in. And, I don’t happen to be equipped with a birth canal ( easy there, **Ukelele Ike** 😃 ), so I wouldn’t know anyway. The pain generated by birth radiates in waves, so I’m told. Not only can you not measure the birth canal precisely, but the pain doesnt’ localize. The REASON you can’t measure it precisely is that it is elastic and adjusts to allow the passage of Wee Bairn. Add in the pressures on the lower spinal cord, the wrenching to the pelvic floor and the awfully painful-sounding anal tearing associated sometimes with birth, and I’d say it stacks up pretty well against passing a kidney stone. THERE, it’s a localized agony. Okay, that was my WAG. I’d love to hear from a Teeming Million who is a woman who has had a baby and has passed a kidney stone. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/4 "2001-06-09T14:28:39Z")
The pain in childbirth is not just from the baby moving through the birth canal. There is an often quite-lengthy build up to this. The uterus cramps and contracts and all kinds of other stuff goes on. I don’t know much about kidney stones, but I’d say these experiences are apples and oranges. Kinda. ---
**Author:** ![cheezit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@cheezit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheezit)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/5 "2001-06-09T14:46:28Z")
I have no idea what the pain is like in childbirth because I am the wrong gender. However, my ex-wife, when our kids were being born, cussed me. And cussed me. And cussed me some more. And when she was done cussing me, she cussed me even more. 😃 So I am making a wild stabbing guess here that it really really hurts bad. 😃 I have, however, had a kidney stone. And I can say, without any reservations what-so-ever, that \*\*if I NEVER have another one of those, it will be entirely too soon \*\*. Shit fire and save matches, that hurt. I do not want another one, EVER!! ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/6 "2001-06-09T15:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JillGat \* > \*\*The pain in childbirth is not just from the baby moving through the birth canal. There is an often quite-lengthy build up to this. The uterus cramps and contracts and all kinds of other stuff goes on. I don’t know much about kidney stones, but I’d say these experiences are apples and oranges. Kinda. \*\* [amused hijack] When my friends David and Laurie were imminently expecting Hailey to make her appearance on this planet, we had them over for brunch. We knew she was in labor, and did quite the spread. All of which she ignored. She sat there,with her stopwatch, and said, " You guys have an orange?". Sure, we gave her one. Which she devoured. After a few minutes, she said, " Um,can I have another one please". Laurie ate **7 oranges** in the time they were over to our house. AND, her cramps increased in severity and frequency. Hailey arrived that night. [/amusing hijack] Sorry, **Jill** for the use of your quote in a blatant hijack, but the apples and oranges thing took me RIGHT back to that day. 🙂 Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/7 "2001-06-09T15:33:12Z")
For my friend who had her baby in just under 4 hours of labor, she’d probably childbirth was easy. For me, who had ToddlerNym after 52 hours of labor, I’d say it’s worse. Of course, I’ve never had a kidney stone but isn’t that the sort of thing you can get serious mind-altering painkillers for? Gotta be careful with painkillers when you have a baby in there. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/8 "2001-06-09T20:06:17Z")
I have heard of female nurses who have experienced both state that they prefer childbirth to kidney stones. **[Rysdad’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73419)** thread on the subject indicates the same. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/9 "2001-06-09T20:20:39Z")
My patients who have had both kids and kidney stones say that the pain is about equivalent, if different in nature. I lack the plumbing to speculate. I will say that the vagina dilates more proportionally for the infant’s head than the ureter does for a stone passing, (12-15 times its resting size vs. 3-4 times for the urethrea)\* but then the vagina is designed to stretch more than the urethra is. Personally the most exquisite pain I ever felt was caused by a plane crash, where I bit a hole right in the center of my tongue, all the way through. It was such that I didn’t even much notice the broken humerus, or that jagged shard of metal driven into my upper inner thigh, and pointing into the groin. Qadgop \*Source: Me with a ruler, measuring the introitus, a newborn’s head circumference, an average urethra, and the largest stone I ever saw passed (1.3 cm). ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/10 "2001-06-09T21:12:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\* Personally the most exquisite pain I ever felt was caused by a plane crash, where I bit a hole right in the center of my tongue, all the way through. It was such that I didn’t even much notice the broken humerus, or that jagged shard of metal driven into my upper inner thigh, and pointing into the groin. \*\* God Damn. :eek: Missed the femoral did it? Traction splint at site, repo at the ER, let it stitch and PT. How’s the linguinal? You are the only person I know of who has survived a plane crash… > [@](#): > > \*\*\*Source: Me with a ruler, measuring the introitus, a newborn’s head circumference, an average urethra, and the largest stone I ever saw passed (1.3 cm). \*\* \<—laughed as I read this. There’s ole **Doc Qad** , leaning over a woman in end stage labor, with his kid’s wooden foot ruler in his hand. " M’am, this won’t take but a moment, I need this for my Internet friends…" 😃 Question: How did **Qad** measure that urethra? Answer: Really very carefully. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/11 "2001-06-09T23:21:33Z")
**cartooniverse** the jagged metal opened up my femoral artery sheath without opening up the femoral artery. Lucky. We augered into an oat field, and I watched them irrigate oats out of my wounds. And I cheated a bit measuring the vagina when baby was crowning. I just measured the kid’s head size after the birth. Also, urethral dilators come in a wide range of sizes. Spooky looking instruments. ---
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/12 "2001-06-10T02:29:22Z")
For some reason, I’m thinking that kidney stone pain is from the stone passing into the ureters and not from the bladder to the urethra. The birth canal is designed to take a newborn. The ureter was not designed to pass a stone. Answer: depends on the size of the newborn and the kidney stone. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/13 "2001-06-10T02:52:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JillGat \* > \*\*The pain in childbirth is not just from the baby moving through the birth canal. There is an often quite-lengthy build up to this. The uterus cramps and contracts and all kinds of other stuff goes on. I don’t know much about kidney stones, but I’d say these experiences are apples and oranges. Kinda. \*\* JillGat has it right. Everyone seems to want to compare the pain of childbirth to passing some sort of fruit out another of the body’s orifices, but that wasn’t really the painful part of childbirth for me. (I had two kids, no pain meds until after the birth.) I didn’t find the exit of my kids through the birth canal to be painful. It was really, really hard work, but not painful. The painful part of childbirth is from the muscle contractions of the uterus. Ever been awakened in the middle of the night by one of those charleyhorse cramps in your calf muscle? That’s what a contraction feels like at peak — except this time, the muscle in question is the size of a watermelon. (How did a fruit get in here again?:D) I haven’t had a kidney stone. (I’m holding my breath, and drinking LOTS of water, though, as my Dad, brother, and both sisters have them.) The main thing that I think would distinguish labor pain from the kidney stone is that labor contractions are finite. They start with a little tightening, ramp up in intensity to sometimes terrible heights, but then they ramp back down again, and you get a break from the pain. (Assuming, of course, your baby is in a position that’s not causing back labor.) I can deal with a pain that I know will last for a minute or so, and then go away for a bit, and will eventually go away altogether once I give birth. With kidney stones, the pain is relentless. And, yes, they’ll give you some awesome drugs to take care of it ---- but that’s AFTER they’ve done some testing on you to see what’s causing your pain. How long do you get to sit around in agony waiting for someone to take labs and get the results, because they don’t want to obscure your symptoms by drugging you up? ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/14 "2001-06-10T04:27:30Z")
[[Gotta be careful with painkillers when you have a baby in there.]] That’s why God invented the “epidural.” ---
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/15 "2001-06-10T05:02:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JillGat \* > \*\* > That’s why God invented the “epidural.” \*\* That has it’s disadvantages. Imagine trying to pass a large stool with the lower half of your body numb. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by YWalker_ > \*\*Everyone seems to want to compare the pain of childbirth to passing some sort of fruit out another of the body’s orifices. > \*\* Yeah, my Mama always says that giving birth is equivalent of passing a watermelon. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/16 "2001-06-10T05:37:47Z")
The epidural does not numb the lower half of your body. They used to do that with a “saddleblock” anaesthetic. I had an epidural and, with the aid of a mirror, could watch my daughter be born, could participate in the childbirth, pushing when needed. I just didn’t have the pain. And the epidural doesn’t affect the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-doctors-or-other-medically-minded-folk/68109/17 "2001-06-10T13:56:34Z")
BTW, my wife says that when she had a traumatic anterior dislocation of her shoulder, it hurt as much as childbirth.