# Calling All Single Mothers By Choice **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490 "2010-09-03T14:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/41 "2010-09-07T19:03:44Z")
But the single person could also make it better with no effort at all. There is no _advantage_ to the kid in being deprived of a parent. The mother doesn’t have to be married, or even in a relationship, but the father should be involved in the kid’s life in some way. At the very least, the kid should be allowed to know who his father is. I can guarantee that 99 times out of 100, the kid will eventually try to find out anyway. Its much easier for a kid to deal with “your father was an asshole, so I left him and we’re better off without him,” than “you don’t have a father.” ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/42 "2010-09-07T19:12:32Z")
There IS an advantage, if it’s a crappy parent, and there’s about a million ways a person can be a crappy enough parent to not be worthwhile, without being outright abusive. And I don’t believe that anyone has advocated hiding the father’s identity from the child. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/43 "2010-09-07T19:44:33Z")
It has not been established that this would be a crappy father. The OP appears to want to remove the father from the equation without any regard to what kind of person he is. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/44 "2010-09-07T20:05:38Z")
I don’t believe she said that. I believe she simply has no intention of being married, and as such figures that the father is unlikely to be in the picture. That’s hardly an unreasonable assumption. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/45 "2010-09-07T20:06:06Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > To the OP: this may have been asked already, but why do you feel you _need_ a baby? > > I think I’m a little confused about the idea of a life plan like that. It was one of my biggest challenges with understanding my friends’ decision. Could you elucidate? I should say to start with that I am a married man, and a father. So take what I say for what it’s worth. There are some women, and I’ve met quite few, who feel that if they haven’t had a child of their own then their life has been a failure. I mean even educated, successful, accomplished women. So when someone like this starts getting up in the years, with no possible husband anywhere on the horizon, having a baby on her own looks more and more attractive. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/46 "2010-09-07T20:24:46Z")
Alternatively, she might just like kids, and want to be a parent. Why is it that some people think a vagina comes pre-packed with neuroses? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/47 "2010-09-07T20:38:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Alternatively, she might just like kids, and want to be a parent. Why is it that some people think a vagina comes pre-packed with neuroses? Very possible. I certainly don’t know her. I’m talking about the people I do know, and very well. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/48 "2010-09-07T20:59:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But the single person could also make it better with no effort at all. There is no _advantage_ to the kid in being deprived of a parent. > > The mother doesn’t have to be married, or even in a relationship, but the father should be involved in the kid’s life in some way. At the very least, the kid should be allowed to know who his father is. I can guarantee that 99 times out of 100, the kid will eventually try to find out anyway. Its much easier for a kid to deal with “your father was an asshole, so I left him and we’re better off without him,” than “you don’t have a father.” You really think it’s better for a child to know their father as some random dude, than to not know who he is, but have a mom who has planned to be a single parent from the start? I don’t know, I hope that’s true. My daughter knows very well who her father is. I know very well who my father is. But I’m not completely sure that either of us is better off this way, since neither has been anywhere near the parent that I have been to my daughter, or that my mom has been to me. It’s something that I’ve been trying to figure out for years: at what point is a half-ass father better than an absent father? I wish I kinew. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/49 "2010-09-07T22:04:32Z")
I’ve said this before here I’m sure, but I told my daughter’s father “You can stay, or you can go, but you can’t come and go. My kid is absolutely not going to sit at the window on Saturday afternoons wondering whether or not Daddy will show up.” Just my personal feeling, but I’d rather lose a limb than bleed out from a thousand little cuts. That said, I never made any attempt to make a big secret of who he was. What would be the point? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/50 "2010-09-07T22:35:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It has not been established that this would be a crappy father. The OP appears to want to remove the father from the equation without any regard to what kind of person he is. I assume that if she’s planning this out, she’s going the artificial insemination route. I’m not sure a man who wasn’t in a close relationship with her would _want_ the burden of a child they’d have no say over (or, alternately, might have to pay child support for because of a legal loophole. Or that she’d want a sperm donor who could sue for custody). ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/51 "2010-09-07T22:37:08Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I assume that if she’s planning this out, she’s going the artificial insemination route. She might even have said so in the OP! > [@AmericanMaid](#): > > I am 33 years old and I have a 5 year plan to 1. Get a good job 2. Lose weight and 3. To have a baby on my own **via insemination**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/52 "2010-09-07T23:17:51Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I don’t believe she said that. I believe she simply has no intention of being married, and as such figures that the father is unlikely to be in the picture. That’s hardly an unreasonable assumption. Yes it is. Why would she assume that the father would not want to be in the picture? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/53 "2010-09-07T23:21:26Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > But the single person could also make it better with no effort at all. There is no _advantage_ to the kid in being deprived of a parent. > > > > The mother doesn’t have to be married, or even in a relationship, but the father should be involved in the kid’s life in some way. At the very least, the kid should be allowed to know who his father is. I can guarantee that 99 times out of 100, the kid will eventually try to find out anyway. Its much easier for a kid to deal with “your father was an asshole, so I left him and we’re better off without him,” than “you don’t have a father.” > > You really think it’s better for a child to know their father as some random dude, than to not know who he is, but have a mom who has planned to be a single parent from the start? If they know their father, then they don’t know him as “some random dude,” they know him as their father. Yes that’s better than being told they don’t have a father and that their mother just squirted some random jizz up her snatch. That cuts them off from a whole side of their identity for no reason. > [@](#): > > I don’t know, I hope that’s true. My daughter knows very well who her father is. I know very well who my father is. But I’m not completely sure that either of us is better off this way, since neither has been anywhere near the parent that I have been to my daughter, or that my mom has been to me. > > It’s something that I’ve been trying to figure out for years: at what point is a half-ass father better than an absent father? I wish I kinew. At every point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/54 "2010-09-07T23:26:27Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’ve said this before here I’m sure, but I told my daughter’s father “You can stay, or you can go, but you can’t come and go. My kid is absolutely not going to sit at the window on Saturday afternoons wondering whether or not Daddy will show up.” > > Just my personal feeling, but I’d rather lose a limb than bleed out from a thousand little cuts. > > That said, I never made any attempt to make a big secret of who he was. What would be the point? That’s the thing. At least she knew who he was. Everyone Ive ever known who didn’t know who their father (or mother) was – and I mean without exception – has at some point tried to find out. It drives them crazy not to know. If the father disappears on his own, that’s one thing, but making a conscious decision to deprove a child of a parent for no good reason does not strike me as anything done for the interest of the child, but for the self-centered whim of the custodial parent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/55 "2010-09-07T23:28:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > It has not been established that this would be a crappy father. The OP appears to want to remove the father from the equation without any regard to what kind of person he is. > > I assume that if she’s planning this out, she’s going the artificial insemination route. I’m not sure a man who wasn’t in a close relationship with her would _want_ the burden of a child they’d have no say over (or, alternately, might have to pay child support for because of a legal loophole. Or that she’d want a sperm donor who could sue for custody). Who cares what the man wants or what she wants? What matters is what’s in the best interest of the child. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/56 "2010-09-07T23:30:47Z")
Does this also mean that lesbian couples should not have kids by artificial insemination unless they let the donor dad be involved in the kid’s life? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/57 "2010-09-07T23:36:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@DianaG](#): > > > > I don’t believe she said that. I believe she simply has no intention of being married, and as such figures that the father is unlikely to be in the picture. That’s hardly an unreasonable assumption. > > Yes it is. Why would she assume that the father would not want to be in the picture? Erm… because so many don’t? Find me ONE mother who decided to “gratuitously deprive” her child of his father, for every ten fathers who bail. I’m not hatin’ on the boys here, but the math is not on your side. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/58 "2010-09-07T23:40:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Who cares what the man wants or what she wants? What matters is what’s in the best interest of the child. You really, really believe that a disinterested, resentful parent is better than none? Because that’s fucked up. I mean, I think we can agree that “Daddy didn’t want you and went away” is bad, but IMO “Daddy didn’t want you but here I am anyway, thanks for ruining my life, kid.” is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/59 "2010-09-07T23:44:00Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Does this also mean that lesbian couples should not have kids by artificial insemination unless they let the donor dad be involved in the kid’s life? I’m not telling anyone what they “should or shouldn’t” do, but I can still have opinions about what they choose. Not every decision is equally great. I think that same sex couples are better than single parents for the simple reason that two is better than one (and I don’t believe it makes any difference what the gender configurations are), but I also do think that, whatever the household, the child has a right to know who both of its biological parents are and be allowed some kind of access to them as long as the (non-custodial) parents are willing, and as lng as that parent poses no threat to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490/60 "2010-09-07T23:46:54Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Yes it is. Why would she assume that the father would not want to be in the picture? > > Erm… because so many don’t? Therefore it should automatically be assumed that none do? isn’t that a little chauvinist on your part? > [@](#): > > Find me ONE mother who decided to “gratuitously deprive” her child of his father, for every ten fathers who bail. I’m not hatin’ on the boys here, but the math is not on your side. The math has nothing to do with it. What happens more often is of no relevance. ne thing does not excuse the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-all-single-mothers-by-choice/552490.md?page=4)