# Calling Japanese people "-san" makes you sound pretentious, not sophisticated **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818 "2003-08-26T19:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/1 "2003-08-26T19:44:22Z")
Ok we have this secretary who quite frankly is one of the most pretentious, opinionated opinionated people I have ever met. She insists on refering to one of our Japanese clients as “Mr. Fujimoto-san” (not real name). “Fujimoto-san called” “Bill is off to meet Fujimoto-san” “Have you called Fujimoto-san yet” Oh are we in a freakin James Clavell novel? How about calling him _Mr._ Fujimoto like everyone else? It’s not like you speak fucking Japanese! I don’t call my boss _Senior_ Esperanza. “Hey!! _Herr_ Ehrlichmann! Are you ready for the meeting with Shaka Washington?” Let’s quit pretending we’re so ‘multicultural’, ok? ---
**Author:** ![Qazzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/aeb1de/32.png) [@Qazzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qazzz)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/2 "2003-08-26T19:58:04Z")
I don’t know why I’m laughing so hard… I would just want to hit her with a stapler. Some people try sooooooo desperately hard to appear “cultivated” and “intelligent.” It brings to mind an old Onion article about some yuppies throwing a sake party or making a point to drink sake or something like that… Not because they enjoyed or knew anything about it, but because they thought it’s the trendy, hip thing to do. Hehehehehe I’m still laughing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/3 "2003-08-26T20:04:20Z")
OK, this is one thread where I agree wholeheartedly with **Msmith537**. If you’re working in an English-speaking office, calling Mr. Tanaka “Tanaka-_san_” sounds false and affected. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/4 "2003-08-26T20:23:25Z")
The only way you can get away with the “-san” business is if you’re on Iron Chef. Or you’re the Karate Kid. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/5 "2003-08-26T20:37:50Z")
Well, from my company’s website, they offer the following advice on Japanese culture (we have a large presence there) > [@](#): > > Business manners are fairly formal in Japan. Unless you are specifically asked to do so you should not expect to address a Japanese by his first name. The last name, plus “san” for both sexes, is commonly used. As a result, any contact with our Japanese coworkers winds up with a lot of -san being used. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/6 "2003-08-26T20:43:33Z")
Well, if you;re _in_ Japan or talking to a Japanese client, sure, use it. But I continue to maintain that it is silly for one native speaker of English to refer to a Japanese client in the third person as “-_san_” when speaking to another native speaker of English. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/7 "2003-08-26T20:44:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > **Well, from my company’s website, they offer the following advice on Japanese culture (we have a large presence there)As a result, any contact with our Japanese coworkers winds up with a lot of -san being used.** Your cite has little to do with the OP. If the secretary in question _addressed_ the client as Fujimoto-san, there would not be an issue. The OP is about referring to the guy as whatever-san when he is not in the building. This is a lame ass affectation, something that is always pit worthy. Haj ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/8 "2003-08-26T20:45:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Qazzz > It brings to mind an old Onion article about some yuppies throwing a sake party or making a point to drink sake or something like that… Not because they enjoyed or knew anything about it, but because they thought it’s the trendy, hip thing to do. Reminds me of a buddy of mine. He suggests the bunch of us go out to dinner at a sushi restaurant. Except he doesn’t like sushi, or sake, or anything Japanese as far as I could tell. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/9 "2003-08-26T20:51:00Z")
When the Tokyo office sends us Email or speaks to us, they refer to us by our **first** names and add “-san” - I presume this is b/c they think since we refer to each other by first name in our office, they should affix “-san” accordingly. It’s always a little humorous to me. (“Hello, Count-san”) :- þ ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/10 "2003-08-26T20:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > Your cite has little to do with the OP. If the secretary in question _addressed_ the client as Fujimoto-san, there would not be an issue. The OP is about referring to the guy as whatever-san when he is not in the building. This is a lame ass affectation, something that is always pit worthy. > > Haj \*\* And actually he’s not really a _client_ where we have to kiss his ass or anything. He some guy from a Japanese bank that has the tiniest share of ownership some powerplant we manage. Except that every 1st of the month he’s on the phone and email all like “WARE MY MONEY!! WARE MY MONEY!!”. Drives my boss and me nuts! I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. Maybe next week I’ll start rolling my r-r-r-r-r-r’s whenever I pronounce hispanic sounding words like “bur-r-r-r-ritos” or “there was a torr-r-r-r-r-nado in Kansas yesterday”! ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/11 "2003-08-26T20:55:17Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever said it, but I do use it in e-mails. It’s how I manage most of my overseas communication and that’s how everyone over here addresses there letters to the folks we communicate with in Japan. Hideharu-san is my main contact, and that’s how I address all his letters. Am I wrong to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/12 "2003-08-26T21:00:12Z")
Ahhhh, I see the problem now… reading comprehension failing, must stop work and go home. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/13 "2003-08-26T21:08:29Z")
Well, instead of san, she could use chan or kun. Demeaning to Mr. Fujimoto, but it would annoy you more. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/14 "2003-08-26T21:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whatami \* > \*\*I don’t think I’ve ever said it, but I do use it in e-mails. It’s how I manage most of my overseas communication and that’s how everyone over here addresses there letters to the folks we communicate with in Japan. Hideharu-san is my main contact, and that’s how I address all his letters. > > Am I wrong to do so? \*\* No, you’re not wrong because you are communicating with a Japanese person who is in Japan. If I were speaking to a Korean client, I’d call him Kim _sonsaeng-nim_ (the Korean equivalent of Kim-_san_), but if I were to tell my boss, "I just spoke to Kim _sonsaeng-nim_ instead of just saying “I just spoke to Mr. Kim at Daehan Bank,” he’d think me a pretentious wanker. (FYI, in general one calls Koreans by their titles of rank in business situations, so one would call Mr. Kim Section Chief Kim or Manager Kim or Professor Kim. ) ---
**Author:** ![elegiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@elegiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elegiac)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/15 "2003-08-26T21:14:06Z")
I worked at at Japanese company once. Myself and the other non-Japanese employees would refer to the Japanese employees with the ‘san’ suffix, and vice-versa. We got so used to it we even used it for each other. The Japanese employees used their last names, we used our first names. Many non-Japanese employees also answered the phone ‘mushy mushy’ or ‘ohio gazamas’ and often imitated the Japanese variant of ‘uh huh’ which is a rather nasal grunting type sound. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/16 "2003-08-26T21:18:45Z")
There was an old SNL bit that took place at a dinner party wherein everyone spoke normally until they asked for someone to pass the “burrrritos”, or “please pass the _ain-chee-lah-dahs_”. Seems to me there was a Latino guest who was completely baffled by the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/17 "2003-08-26T21:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*There was an old SNL bit that took place at a dinner party wherein everyone spoke normally until they asked for someone to pass the “burrrritos”, or “please pass the _ain-chee-lah-dahs_”. Seems to me there was a Latino guest who was completely baffled by the whole thing. \*\* 1990 SNL, Jimmy Smits was the host - it was an office meeting where they’d all ordered Mexican food for lunch. Saturday Night Live and showtunes…my two areas of expertise. Ava ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/18 "2003-08-26T22:41:58Z")
When I worked with the Japanese it was considered courteous to address Kitajima with the san honorific (Kitajima-san) just as they did to me. When we spoke to them we always used san properly and when we spoke of them amoungst ourselves we often, but not always, continued the practice. Since I called Kitajima-san Kitajima-san all day, it was easy to continue to do so when I spoke of him with my countrymen. It had nothing to do with trying to sound sophisticated, it was mostly habit. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/19 "2003-08-26T22:56:03Z")
I think I would be slightly unnerved if someone addressed me in such a way. I mean, I’m Japanese sure, but I wouldn’t expect English speakers to try addressing me proper Japanese format. In Japan sure, but in Canada no thanks. I might actually mistaken it for a joke at my expense or you just might annoy me 😃 espically since most people absolutely destroy my last name. **msmith537** I assume in this case the client is infact a native Japanese person? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818/20 "2003-08-26T23:05:46Z")
Could be worse. She could be calling him “Mr. Fujimoto-san.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-japanese-people-san-makes-you-sound-pretentious-not-sophisticated/197818.md?page=2)