# Calling someone a troll in The Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 14, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466 "2008-07-14T18:02:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/21 "2008-07-16T12:45:44Z")
I have been interpreting the rule as **Giraffe** described rather than the way **TubaDiva** did, too. I thought it the obvious interpretation, even though **DSYoungEsq** thinks his is the obvious interpretation. The rule’s being working fairly smoothly, considering. 🙂 For support for my interpretation, I’ll give you [ > [@](#): > > **tomndebb** > If you believe that a poster is actually a troll, your best bet is to report it just as you would in any other Forum. In the Pit, however, one may hurl the term “troll” at another poster and it is up to the rest of the Teeming Millions to decide whether your claim was an actual accusation–and whether the accusation has merit–or simply one more insult. ]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7467528&postcount=40](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7467528&postcount=40)) ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/22 "2008-07-16T12:57:10Z")
Personally I just stick with the interpretation expounded by Augustine of Hippo _Audi partem alteram_. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/23 "2008-07-16T14:03:57Z")
What Giraffe said is the accurate interpretation. I was not crystal clear and I am sorry some people became confused over what I said. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/24 "2008-07-16T14:24:48Z")
I’m not just saying this because I’ve finally paid my subscription, but surely only guests should be suspected and accused of troll-like behaviour? After all, would any real troll pay £8 a year for something they can do for free on any number of sites? Or do you think some members would think it worth paying £8 just for the challenge of trying to circumvent the rules? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/25 "2008-07-16T14:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] After all, would any real troll pay £8 a year for something they can do for free on any number of sites? Or do you think some members would think it worth paying £8 just for the challenge of trying to circumvent the rules? [/QUOTE] You’re new to the Internet, aren’t you? In other words, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/26 "2008-07-16T14:52:39Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] I’m not just saying this because I’ve finally paid my subscription, but surely only guests should be suspected and accused of troll-like behaviour? [/quote] Not at all. We’ve banned members for trolling. It’s not very common, but it happens. > [@](#): > > After all, would any real troll pay £8 a year for something they can do for free on any number of sites? Or do you think some members would think it worth paying £8 just for the challenge of trying to circumvent the rules? It’s definitely happened in my opinion, so this isn’t a hypothetical question. Some people enjoy screwing with others, and some don’t think the rules apply to them. You’re assuming that trolls view themselves as trolls, which isn’t necessarily the case. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/27 "2008-07-16T15:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Not at all. We’ve banned members for trolling. It’s not very common, but it happens. It’s definitely happened in my opinion, so this isn’t a hypothetical question. Some people enjoy screwing with others, and some don’t think the rules apply to them. You’re assuming that trolls view themselves as trolls, which isn’t necessarily the case. [/QUOTE] If a troll doesn’t believe he is a troll, is he really guilty of trolling then? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/28 "2008-07-16T15:26:03Z")
Yup. He could think he’s just having a little fun, winding pompous people up, but he’s still trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Erasmus\_Darwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@Erasmus\_Darwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erasmus_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/29 "2008-07-16T15:42:59Z")
It seems to me that this policy boils down to allowing you to call someone a troll unless you actually mean it. That seems a little silly to me, even more so considering that posting things the poster doesn’t actually believe in is one of the hallmarks of trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/30 "2008-07-16T16:32:09Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] If a troll doesn’t believe he is a troll, is he really guilty of trolling then? [/QUOTE] Yes. Some of these people believe they are geniuses sent to blow the minds of the timid sheep who inhabit the rest of the Internet. These would-be Buddhas don’t think it’s jerkish to rile people up that way. From their point of view, it’s enlightening and proves how brilliant they are. They’re wrong, but the arrogance is amusing, in part because it always trips them up. Basically, they’re Wile E. Coyote handing out his business card that says “super genius” - and then Bugs Bunny outwits him and the guy ends up a smoldering heap. > [@Erasmus Darwin](#): > > It seems to me that this policy boils down to allowing you to call someone a troll unless you actually mean it. No. You are allowed to call someone a troll if you want to, period, as long as you’re in the Pit. If you think a person is trolling with a specific post, you should also report it and not just call them names. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/31 "2008-07-16T18:53:53Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] After all, would any real troll pay £8 a year for something they can do for free on any number of sites? [/QUOTE] It is not without precedent for one of these fuckheads to play nice for a while, and plead poverty at the end of the guest period, and thus cadge a generous but naive member to pay the membership fee, after which said fuckhead is able to bring his nefarious intent into full flower on someone else’s dime. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/32 "2008-07-17T16:07:54Z")
Isn’t the difference that between calling someone a name (allowed in the Pit) and trying to junior mod (not allowed anywhere)? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/33 "2008-07-18T11:51:22Z")
No, because **Guinastasia** ’s thread called for mod action specifically. Which, indeed, came about - **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** has been suspended or banned. So apparently calling someone a troll does replace the report function, or at least supplement it. _:shrugs:_ I have a feeling most of this is after the fact rationalization. **Kalhoun** admitted to posting so as to irritate, **Carol Stream** complained, they don’t like **Carol Stream** (and they will tolerate anti-religious behavior for longer than other forms of trolling) and now they are trying to square the circle of 'calling someone a troll is OK except if it is isn’t". Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/34 "2008-07-18T12:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] No, because **Guinastasia** ’s thread called for mod action specifically. Which, indeed, came about - **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** has been suspended or banned. So apparently calling someone a troll does replace the report function, or at least supplement it. [/QUOTE] If you notice, **Shodan** , I posted in the threads that got **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** suspended. So we were aware of those threads before **Guin** pitted the guy, we just didn’t resolve the situation until the next day. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/35 "2008-07-18T12:39:25Z")
> [@](#): > > […] So apparently calling someone a troll does replace the report function, or at least supplement it. […] I have a feeling most of this is after the fact rationalization **Shodan** , the **tomndebb** post I linked to in my post 21 is from _two years ago_. It’s not at all like the Pit mods are making up this distinction as they’re going along. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/36 "2008-07-18T13:56:09Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] If you notice, **Shodan** , I posted in the threads that got **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** suspended. So we were aware of those threads before **Guin** pitted the guy, we just didn’t resolve the situation until the next day. [/QUOTE] I don’t get your point. My post was an argument against the idea that the difference between calling someone a troll and calling someone a troll is that perjoratives are okay but junior modding is _verboten_. “So-and-so should be banned for trolling” is rather close to junior modding, ISTM. But that form of calling someone a troll is okay. So that can’t be the distinction. Whether or not **Carol Stream** reported the post to which he objected, I have no way of knowing, any more than I know if **Guinastasia** reported any of **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** ’s offending threads. The fact remains that im one case, accusations of trollery were publicly made and acted upon. In another, they were publicly made, and the accuser told that he should not have done. > [@hawthorne](#): > > Shodan, the tomndebb post I linked to in my post 21 is from two years ago. It’s not at all like the Pit mods are making up this distinction as they’re going along. [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9998514&postcount=272), on the other hand, is from five days ago, the same day as the post linked to in the OP. So the distinction between calling someone a troll and calling someone a troll does seem to be something that has arisen only recently. I’m open to correction, of course, but it appears to me that the idea was to come up with a distinction that will allow “posting deliberately to irritate” (sometimes) and disallow “calling someone a troll” (sometimes). And the distinctions, at least as explained so far, are not very credible, IMO. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/37 "2008-07-18T14:08:30Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I don’t get your point. My post was an argument against the idea that the difference between calling someone a troll and calling someone a troll is that perjoratives are okay but junior modding is _verboten_. “So-and-so should be banned for trolling” is rather close to junior modding, ISTM. But that form of calling someone a troll is okay. So that can’t be the distinction. [/quote] Okay, I see what you’re saying. The way I’ve always understood it, junior modding is acting like a mod and telling another poster what to do. Telling the _mods_ what to do is something that could be termed junior modding, but it’s a little different and it’s not frowned on to the same extent, although it should be kept in ATMB or the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/38 "2008-07-18T14:29:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **shodan** > And the distinctions, at least as explained so far, are not very credible, IMO. I think the distinctions _are_ clear and longstanding but the application in this case is rather confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/39 "2008-07-18T15:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] No, because **Guinastasia** ’s thread called for mod action specifically. Which, indeed, came about - **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** has been suspended or banned. So apparently calling someone a troll does replace the report function, or at least supplement it. [/QUOTE] **Guinastasia’s** thread really had nothing to do with the decision to suspend **2.5**. (Note he has been suspended rather than banned.) He had already been the subject of discussion by the moderators for previous threads, and had been informed by e-mail that the next violation would get him a suspension. Since **2.5’s** last two threads were in GD, I am not certain who if anyone reported them. (Moderators generally only see reports from their own forums.) However, as **Marley23** notes, they came to our attention independently of the Pit thread, and would have gotten the same response regardless of its existence. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466/40 "2008-07-18T16:31:54Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I’m open to correction, of course, but it appears to me that the idea was to come up with a distinction that will allow “posting deliberately to irritate” (sometimes) and disallow “calling someone a troll” (sometimes). [/QUOTE] Apologies if I’m being slow, but I’m not understanding where you’re seeing capriciousness. No one has ever been warned for calling someone a troll in the Pit since we changed the rule, regardless of whether they were using it as a pejorative or suggesting mod action. We’ve also give out very few warnings for trolling in the past few years. I’m not sure we’ve given any to established posters who are willing to engage in discussion. So it’s not like we’re clamping down on one group of people while ignoring the sins of another. It’s true that the rules on trolling and junior modding can be a bit vague, in part because we tend to let a lot of minor stuff slide. For example, **Guin** ’s Pit thread did have a junior modding side to it, but it also touched on how we deal with trolls (or posters who some perceive as trolls). If we shut down the thread, we discourage junior modding but we also stifle discussion of board policy. I think the latter is a greater harm than the former is a benefit. In general, as a mod I’ll usually err on the side of doing nothing and allowing more discussion than intervening. I’d rather have the most open discourse possible than focus on blind consistency above all else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-a-troll-in-the-pit/456466.md?page=3)