# Calling someone racist is a personal insult **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802 "2010-04-12T02:25:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/1 "2010-04-12T02:25:21Z")
It seems that some people on this board are not cognizant of this. It should be quite obvious to anyone who knows what a personal insult is. You’ve just called someone an insulting name. I’d rather be called a cunt, as that just means you’re mad at me. But calling someone racist is actually an attack on their character. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/2 "2010-04-12T02:36:04Z")
Did you mean this to be in another thread? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/3 "2010-04-12T02:56:13Z")
Wouldn’t it depend on the person concerned? I recall one poster (thankfully banned long, long ago) who was quite proud of being a racist. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/4 "2010-04-12T08:31:19Z")
> [@Rico](#): > > Did you mean this to be in another thread? Not really. It’s what I consider a rant, but not good enough for the Pit.\* Just something that bugs me. I’ve seen mods post in threads that have it, so it seems that I’m essentially disagreeing with you guys. \*Plus, it’s technically about moderation, so I thought ATMB makes sense. View it more as a question. Do you mods consider it a breach of the “No personal attacks” rule? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/5 "2010-04-12T16:48:29Z")
I tend to agree that it’s a personal insult. My question, i guess, is whether people here call each other racists outside the Pit, where insults are allowed. The most recent instance i can think of was, i think, **FinnAgain** calling someone a racist in the “Finn Again’s Wake” thread, but that was in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/6 "2010-04-12T17:00:01Z")
What if someone says, flat out, that they believe group X is inferior in group Y? Something like, “I believe X race is less intelligent than Y. It is not a matter of culture, or environment; it is their race.” I’m not talking about it being okay to shriek “Racist!!!11” every time someone mentions race in their (perhaps negative) description of someone, I mean someone making a statement that cannot be construed as anything but racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/7 "2010-04-12T17:02:42Z")
I found one or two examples where the word racist was treated as a personal insult. Describing an idea as racist would be allowed, but using it against another poster wouldn’t be allowed outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/8 "2010-04-12T17:02:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > View it more as a question. Do you mods consider it a breach of the “No personal attacks” rule? If directed at another poster in GQ, who did not self-identify as a racist, I would regard it as a personal insult and probably issue at least a moderator note to dial it back. Someone who made a habit of it would probably receive a warning. Identification of non-posters as racists would probably be allowed. An allegation that a particular statement or point of view was racist might be allowed depending on the context of the discussion, > [@](#): > > I’ve seen mods post in threads that have it, so it seems that I’m essentially disagreeing with you guys. To understand your disagreement, I think we need some links to specific instances that you have observed. Where, exactly, have you seen this? Also, if a post accusing another poster of being a racist wasn’t reported, it’s entirely possible that a moderator could have posted in the thread without being aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/9 "2010-04-12T17:10:18Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What if someone says, flat out, that they believe group X is inferior in group Y? Something like, “I believe X race is less intelligent than Y. It is not a matter of culture, or environment; it is their race.” I’m not talking about it being okay to shriek “Racist!!!11” every time someone mentions race in their (perhaps negative) description of someone, I mean someone making a statement that cannot be construed as anything but racist. It’s OK to _be_ a racist, and it’s permitted to argue a racist point of view. However, posters engaging in debate on the subject should address the racist nature of the arguments and statements themselves, rather than call the poster a racist. You may call the _idea_ racist; you should refrain from calling the _poster_ racist outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/10 "2010-04-12T17:13:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s OK to _be_ a racist, and it’s permitted to argue a racist point of view. However, posters engaging in debate on the subject should address the racist nature of the arguments and statements themselves, rather than call the poster a racist. You may call the _idea_ racist; you should refrain from calling the _poster_ racist outside the Pit. So I can say “I don’t agree with your racist statement that…” bla bla bla? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/11 "2010-04-12T17:17:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What if someone says, flat out, that they believe group X is inferior in group Y? If someone was that upfront about it I don’t think I’d object, but I’d rather see posters take their arguments apart than just call them racist. We have some posters with views that are racist or near-racist. They like to complain that people are calling them racist to shut them up, but Dopers rarely accuse them of racism. I mentioned I found a few instances of “racist” being moderated. They’re here: [from Great Debates last December](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11847743#post11847743), [one in MPSIMS in March](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12276223) (although this could be about the tone, not just the use of the word racist), and [another in GD in January 2009](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10670426#post10670426). ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/12 "2010-04-12T17:23:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If someone was that upfront about it I don’t think I’d object, but I’d rather see posters take their arguments apart than just call them racist. We have some posters with views that are racist or near-racist. They like to complain that people are calling them racist to shut them up, but Dopers rarely accuse them of racism. Oh, there are about three people I can think of right now who are quite bold about expressing their views. Bold as in I had to do a double take when I read the posts. “Did he… did he really just say that? Okay, points for honesty, if nothing else.” At least the other board racists use code and try not to so blatantly claim another race is inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/13 "2010-04-12T18:08:34Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So I can say “I don’t agree with your racist statement that…” bla bla bla? In GQ, I think discussion is best promoted by avoiding introducing loaded terms like that. If you must, it would be better to say that “I believe this statement is racist because xxx,” and back it up. But I would rather you didn’t, as long as the question is in GQ. This said, OPs in GQ that have a clear element of racism almost invariably will get booted over to GD. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/14 "2010-04-12T18:15:43Z")
I was thinking about GD. I asked because this reminded me of a few threads in particular, one of which was linked to here, where I was thinking, “But you \*are \*racist. You admitted that you believe” bla bla bla thing which is, by definition, racist. None of this beating-around-the-bush racist crap that gives people just enough space to claim they’re not racist. We’re talking flat out profession of the inferiority of certain races. Sorry if you don’t like the term, but it’s true. Anyway, thanks for answering, kids. Back to (pretending to) work. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/15 "2010-04-12T21:48:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s OK to _be_ a racist, and it’s permitted to argue a racist point of view. _Why?_ We have rules against hate speech and being a jerk, why are they not enforced? Seriously. What could be more jerkish than being a racist, and what is hate speech if not racism? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/16 "2010-04-12T23:46:39Z")
Worth three minutes of your time, if this issue is of interest to you: [How to Tell People They Sound Racist](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc&) on YouTube. This is actually really great advice for keeping a discussion productive while not letting racists get away with saying racist things unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/17 "2010-04-13T03:12:25Z")
The word “Bigot” gets thrown around a lot on the boards, too- certainly moreso than racist, it seems. I’d argue that’s another word that counts as a personal insult when directed (or implied to be directed at) other people. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/18 "2010-04-13T04:59:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > We have rules against hate speech and being a jerk, why are they not enforced? Seriously. What could be more jerkish than being a racist, and what is hate speech if not racism? If someone used hate speech (by which I mean something of the order of “niggers are morons”), they would receive a warning. In fact, in the past when white supremacists visited the board they have been allowed to make their arguments, but usually ended up descending into hate speech and being banned in short order. We’re not generally going to make a call on “being a jerk” simply for holding a particular political or social viewpoint. There are plenty of people who think that those in favor of/against permitting abortion are jerks; or that Zionists are jerks, or that people who believe homosexuals are sinful are jerks. Jerkdom here is based essentially on behavior, not on opinions. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/19 "2010-04-13T05:17:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The word “Bigot” gets thrown around a lot on the boards, too- certainly moreso than racist, it seems. I’d argue that’s another word that counts as a personal insult when directed (or implied to be directed at) other people. As far as I know, I’ve only used that in the Pit. Though I will refer to what a person says as bigotry. > [@Collibri](#): > > To understand your disagreement, I think we need some links to specific instances that you have observed. Where, exactly, have you seen this? Also, if a post accusing another poster of being a racist wasn’t reported, it’s entirely possible that a moderator could have posted in the thread without being aware of it. I think the last part is probably what is happening. So far, I think all three times I’ve reported it at least somethjust ing has happened. It just astonishes me that no one else noticed. It kinda leaps out at me. So I guess this more goes out to others who I would expect to have read it, and not reported it. The post that caused me to write this OP was actually against MeadOldLady (in IMHO, I think). The fact that she hasn’t mentioned it almost seems like she didn’t even notice. (Or care, since she seems to be like that.) It even came from a poster I generally does not throw out personal insults, and, I think even would rather us not have a Pit. I probably should have sent a PM to them. **raindog** or something. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802/20 "2010-04-13T05:24:52Z")
Colibri: fair enough. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-someone-racist-is-a-personal-insult/535802.md?page=2)