# Calling something you think is stupid stupid is not elitism, 'mmkay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856 "2007-06-29T00:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/21 "2007-07-01T01:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Not having firearms available generally in civilian life a breach of good manners or custom would always result in a physical fight. [/QUOTE] Perhaps it was just a lack of quality psychiatric care in your area. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/22 "2007-07-01T02:02:37Z")
[QUOTE=whole bean] I believe you left it in the parlor by the Victrola [/QUOTE] Fuck your peasant “recordings.” I only listen to live chamber music. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/23 "2007-07-01T02:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Pet peeve time… Poster A expesses disdain for Thing X because they think it’s stupid. Poster B comes charging in calling Poster A elitist. This is getting really old, because it’s, you know, WRONG! [/QUOTE] Wish I’d seen this thread earlier. I have written this same OP at least twice, and this is a horse I beat frequently and violently. To no avail; get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/24 "2007-07-01T02:14:58Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I fear that Nigel, Lord Tuffington, has absconded with it, and shall not return it without a vigorous round of fisticuffs. But fear not! Should the struggle go against you, I shall be lurking in the wings with a collapsible chair to even the odds! Now let’s go show that bugger what for, eh? [/QUOTE] This is brilliant. Funniest post I’ve read all week. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/25 "2007-07-02T15:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=whole bean] Professional wrestling is no more “pointless” or “worthless” than, say, …CSI: Miami… [/QUOTE] That’s an unfortunate choice. \*CSI:Miami \* is really really fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/26 "2007-07-02T15:29:24Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] \*CSI:Miami \* is really really fucking stupid. [/QUOTE] What a snob. You and your _Masterpiece Theatre_ are just too good for this world, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/27 "2007-07-02T15:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] What a snob. You and your _Masterpiece Theatre_ are just too good for this world, aren’t you? [/QUOTE] Actually, I prefer PBS’ wrestling program: _Unmitigatedly Consummate Melee_. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/28 "2007-07-02T15:37:17Z")
I guess that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. I don’t _feel_ elitist because when I say “I don’t like X, I think it’s stupid”, I don’t feel like X is beneath my station, or whatever, I just don’t _like_ it…I know, it’s better to leave off the “I think it’s stupid” part, and stick with the “I don’t like it” part, although sometimes you need to explain _why_ you don’t like it, and you start getting into tricky territory there, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/29 "2007-07-02T16:03:44Z")
With apologies to **An Arky** , I think that it would be fair to recall a specific, recent occasion in which someone was called elitist. In the thread [“Why do country singers give up songs to other artists?”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426144), **An Arky** was called “elitist” when he said: > [@An Arky](#): > > I’m a tad disdainful of this, because as a person who writes and performs his own songs (admitting bias here), I don’t have a lot of respect for performers who have nothing of their own to say, mimes excepted. **An Arky** has expressed the desire not to continue that particular argument, and I agree with him, but I just wanted to point out that if this is one of the cases that he’s talking about, it doesn’t fit the pattern “I have disdain for X, because I think it’s stupid.” It’s more like “I have disdain for X, because of some egregiously unsupportable assumptions on my part.” And, in this case, even if he had said, “… because it’s stupid,” I think it would still be open to charges of elitism. Elitism, as used in creative communities, doesn’t necessarily refer to an elite in terms of general social standing, education, or wealth. Elites can be self-appointed arbiters of some specific creative medium. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/30 "2007-07-02T16:06:00Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] \ …or the cult of White Castle fans in Chicago who love it because the cashiers are rude, the burgers taste foul, and they have the same effect on one’s digestive system as a packet of Ex-Lax washed down with a fourty of Genny Cream Ale and a shot of brake fluid. [/QUOTE] Hey! The burgers happen to taste pretty damn good. All else…fairly accurate. - Cem ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/31 "2007-07-02T16:38:34Z")
“mmkay?” What is this supposed to sound like or signify? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/32 "2007-07-02T17:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=plnnr] “mmkay?” What is this supposed to sound like or signify? [/QUOTE] I think in this context it’s intended to blend an air of patience overburdened with contempt for the addressee, who in this case is indeterminate. It’s sort of like a :rolleyes: and if addressed to a specific member can be taken as hostile. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/33 "2007-07-02T17:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=plnnr] “mmkay?” What is this supposed to sound like or signify? [/QUOTE] What it’s supposed to sound like is the word “okay” said with minimal movement of the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/34 "2007-07-02T17:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] With apologies to **An Arky** , I think that it would be fair to recall a specific, recent occasion in which someone was called elitist. In the thread [“Why do country singers give up songs to other artists?”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426144), **An Arky** was called “elitist” when he said: **An Arky** has expressed the desire not to continue that particular argument, and I agree with him, but I just wanted to point out that if this is one of the cases that he’s talking about, it doesn’t fit the pattern “I have disdain for X, because I think it’s stupid.” It’s more like “I have disdain for X, because of some egregiously unsupportable assumptions on my part.” And, in this case, even if he had said, “… because it’s stupid,” I think it would still be open to charges of elitism. Elitism, as used in creative communities, doesn’t necessarily refer to an elite in terms of general social standing, education, or wealth. Elites can be self-appointed arbiters of some specific creative medium. [/QUOTE] Pretty much… And the reason I didn’t wish to continue the argument is that while I know that personally, I didn’t mean it to be elitist, and I truly didn’t, it can easily and not entirely wrongly be considered such. I thought that by qualifying my statement as it being just my opinion that I could avoid that line of argument. Not the case, because, there’s always going to be someone on the other side in these instances. But really, I’m not elitist about that stuff, I simply fell in the all-too-familiar trap of attaching a value judgement to a personal matter of taste, which is a third rail. In creative endeavors, it’s very easy to do that, because it’s an emotional subject, not terribly rational, and hard to navigate. So, **acsenray** , this thread wasn’t directly in response to your charges in the other thread (I concede they may have some merit, even if I don’t agree); but it reminded me of the circumstances in which those charges are bogus. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/35 "2007-07-02T17:38:25Z")
Oh. Kind of stupid expression. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/36 "2007-07-02T17:43:07Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Wish I’d seen this thread earlier. I have written this same OP at least twice, and this is a horse I beat frequently and violently. To no avail; get used to it. [/QUOTE] Sure, but there’s a difference between being “an elitist” and a “totally dickheaded elitist”. I know you don’t see it. People have tried to explain it. To no avail; they’re used to it. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/37 "2007-07-02T18:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] What it’s supposed to sound like is the word “okay” said with minimal movement of the mouth. [/QUOTE] Yes, the sort of thing a balloon-headed guidance counselor might use to punctuate his sentences when lecturing a young child, to express a sort of condescending affirmation and allow the child a moment to “catch up” and understand the simple wisdom being taught. E.g., “elitism is _bad_, mm’kay? If you are an elitist, you’re _bad_, mm’kay?” (Et cetera.) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/38 "2007-07-02T19:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=plnnr] Oh. Kind of stupid expression. [/QUOTE] Elitist! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/39 "2007-07-03T17:04:16Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] What **Lust4Life** said. seedy old-man bars, [/QUOTE] Or maybe just places where local single men of advanced age liked to go and knock back a couple. Why is it that we tend to sniff our disapproval of those who don’t share our generational cohort, marital status, and so on doing the same things we sometimes enjoy doing? ---
**Author:** ![NJ\_Kef\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b487fb/32.png) [@NJ\_Kef\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NJ_Kef_1)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856/40 "2007-07-03T23:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **elmwood** > They remind me of the people who love Detroit because of the urban decay, not in spite of it I resemble that remark. I don’t consider myself a reverse snob, but I live in a quarter of town like the one you described. It has _hookers, drug dealers, boarded up stores, seedy old-man bars_… also, bodegas, liquor stores, strip clubs, and pizza joints run by men with Italian accents. Today I watched the old gym for local boxers, the kind of place where you would expect to find Rocky Balboa, being gutted and torn down. Okay, I was actually watching some sweaty, shirtless, golden-skinned men tear down the old gym, but they’re part of the scenery too. I mourned the loss of this landmark. I like the character of crumbling brownstones and dilapidated manses even if they do harbor crackheads. I like the dust of history, the layers of years. Even cracked concrete sidewalks tell a story. I love old Trentonopolis because of its decay not despite it. Alas, one can’t safely stroll the streets at night as one could 20 years ago, and yet I will miss this neighborhood when it is eventually gentrified (one hopes by gradual degrees). None of which addresses your observations which seem to me very insightful. I can’t speak to the Buffalonians you’ve described. I just wanted to share a coign of vantage which might suggest how one can find something sublime in urban decay. Why anyone would think that is a superior position, I have no idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-something-you-think-is-stupid-stupid-is-not-elitism-mmkay/409856.md?page=1)