# calling the wind Mariah **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943 "2008-05-28T22:17:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/1 "2008-05-28T22:17:31Z")
The rain is Tess, the fire is Joe and they call the wind Mariah. Apparently. Is that actually true? Did they really use those names for those thing back then? Do they still? Why those names? What other things did they give names to? (and for anyone who doesn’t know what I’m talking about: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5C4kdANSUw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5C4kdANSUw) ) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/2 "2008-05-28T22:46:27Z")
Regarding Maria, see this [Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453461&highlight=wind+maria) thread. Regarding Joe and Tess, somehow, I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/3 "2008-05-28T22:53:22Z")
Away out here We got a name For wind, and rain, and fire. The wind is “wind”, The rain is “rain”, And we call the fire, “fire”. “FIRE”! “FIRE”! We call the fire, “fire”! ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/4 "2008-05-28T23:38:38Z")
And the fire is hot! Hot is the heat! The heat is . . . HOT! Not Joe. Joe is neither fire or hot. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/5 "2008-05-28T23:57:06Z")
I believe the fire answers to “Joan” not “Joe” See [Paint Your Wagon](http://en.wikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Your_Wagon_%28musical%29ipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Your_Wagon_%28musical%29). As Frederick and Alan J. would say, “Don’t let it be forgot / that once there was a spot / where they talked to trees and called natural phenomena by women’s names/ because they were all quite neurot / -ic.” ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/6 "2008-05-29T00:10:46Z")
Fire is “Joe.” ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/7 "2008-05-29T00:58:58Z")
Huh. I always thought they called the fire Joel, not prosaic Joe. Sounded more exotic, spiritual sort of - which is what one is trying to be if one is going around naming things in such fashion. It also sounds like something one might do if one was bored and lonely out of one’s heart and mind. Hey, I like that song. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/8 "2008-05-29T01:05:29Z")
[QUOTE=Si Amigo] Not Joe. Joe is neither fire or hot. [/QUOTE] Haven’t you ever had a hot cup o’joe? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/9 "2008-05-29T01:24:00Z")
Next you’ll tell me that Maria Von Trapp didn’t really like raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/10 "2008-05-29T02:40:07Z")
The fire is **Jo** - a feminine name like Maria and Tess. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/11 "2008-05-29T02:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Gary T] The fire is **Jo** - a feminine name like Maria and Tess. [/QUOTE] cite? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/12 "2008-05-29T02:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=Gary T] The fire is **Jo** - a feminine name like Maria and Tess. [QUOTE=Peter Morris] cite? [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Sorry, it got burned up in the … ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/13 "2008-05-29T03:04:00Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] cite? [/QUOTE] 1. [“Folk Music Greatest Hits”](http://wwwo.sheetmusicplus.com/pages.html?cart=342100340228086174&target=smp_detail.html%26sku%3DHL.315026%26t%3DOOP&s=pages-http%253A//www.google.com/search%253Fhl%253Den%2526q%253D%252522folk%252Bmusic%252Bgreatest%252Bhits%252522&e=/sheetmusic/detail/HL.315026.html&t=OOP&k=&r=wwws-err5) (late '70’s edition), which I own but can’t readily show. 2. Common sense _a la_ **Gary T** - C’mon, these things always get slightly whimsical feminine names. Not weird ones like Penelope or pedestrian ones like Ann, and certainly not pedestrian masculine ones like Joe. :p, but I am serious. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/14 "2008-05-29T03:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=Gary T] 2) Common sense _a la_ **Gary T** - C’mon, these things always get slightly whimsical feminine names. Not weird ones like Penelope or pedestrian ones like Ann, and certainly not pedestrian masculine ones like Joe. :p, but I am serious. [/QUOTE] When I put “The rain is Tess, the fire Joe” lyrics into Google, I get 124 hits. When I use “The rain is Tess, the fire Jo” lyrics, I get 3 hits. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/15 "2008-05-29T05:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] When I put “The rain is Tess, the fire Joe” lyrics into Google, I get 124 hits. When I use “The rain is Tess, the fire Jo” lyrics, I get 3 hits. [/QUOTE] The actual lyric (according to my book, and how it was sung in the movie [[here on youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5C4kdANSUw) ] is “the rain is Tess, the **fire’s** Jo.” Googling that _vs._ “…the fire’s Joe” gets more hits for “Joe” - 614 to 33 - but the ratio is less lopsided. I believe this is a result of mistakes being entered and repeated rather than a confirmation that “Joe” is correct. The song was copyrighted in 1951. At that time, hurricanes were given only feminine names, a practice which continued until 1979. I find it much more plausible that in 1951 the songwriter was using feminine names for all three of the “forces of nature” in the song. In contrast, probably 98+% of the people who entered the lyrics on the internet weren’t born until after 1979, and thus had a different subconscious expectation with regard to feminine/masculine names. Furthermore, I’ll bet the overwhelming majority had only heard the lyric, not read it. Now, I’ll gladly admit error if an authoritative cite contradicts me. I’d love to see a 1951 copy of the sheet music. But until then, I’ll take my book as the best authority presented so far. I’ll further maintain that when the song was written, 99% of the people who heard the lyric would have assumed “Jo” rather than “Joe.” It’s these young whippersnappers with their internets who grew up hearing about Hurricane Arthur and Hurricane Matthew who think they’re hearing “Joe.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/16 "2008-05-29T08:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Next you’ll tell me that Maria Von Trapp didn’t really like raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. [/QUOTE] She does in the alternate universe where she looks like Julie Andrews. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/17 "2008-05-29T12:32:22Z")
It said “Joe” in our Camp Fire camp songbook\* in the 1980’s, so obviously, some people born before 1979 thought it was “Joe”. \*not a professional, official publication–instead, something that was typed up (probably by someone’s mom) and mimeographed. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/18 "2008-05-29T13:50:58Z")
Did anybody even look at the thread [**Freddy the Pig**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453461&highlight=wind+maria) so thoughtfully linked? > [@](#): > > Storm by George Rippey Stewart in 1941 was responsible for the naming of Pacific storms after women. In the novel the storm is “Maria”. This was the inspiration for Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe’s They Call The Wind Maria. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/19 "2008-05-29T17:16:57Z")
**Gary T** , the huge hole in your argument is that we aren’t talking about hurricanes or wind or rain, but their opposite: fire. It makes just as much sense in the abstract that if you make rain feminine you’d make fire masculine. I can’t find older sheet music for the song, but I will admit that the one hit I found through Google Books supports you. [Their Words are Music: The Great Theatre Lyricists and Their Lyrics By Lehman Engel](http://books.google.com/books?id=HQg9AAAAMAAJ&q=%22they+call+the+wind+maria%22+lyrics&dq=%22they+call+the+wind+maria%22+lyrics&ei=h-M-SJ7wN4a4jgHC3cGDDg&pgis=1) I’ll take that cite over an abstract argument. Such a book presumably would be very careful to get the lyrics completely accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943/20 "2008-05-29T17:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] **Gary T** , the huge hole in your argument is that we aren’t talking about hurricanes or wind or rain, but their opposite: fire. It makes just as much sense in the abstract that if you make rain feminine you’d make fire masculine. [/quote] Well, it would except it contradicts MY opinion. 😃 > [@](#): > > I can’t find older sheet music for the song, but I will admit that the one hit I found through Google Books supports you. > > [Their Words are Music: The Great Theatre Lyricists and Their Lyrics By Lehman Engel](http://books.google.com/books?id=HQg9AAAAMAAJ&q=%22they+call+the+wind+maria%22+lyrics&dq=%22they+call+the+wind+maria%22+lyrics&ei=h-M-SJ7wN4a4jgHC3cGDDg&pgis=1) > > I’ll take that cite over an abstract argument. Such a book presumably would be very careful to get the lyrics completely accurate. I’m impressed you found that. I’m not familiar with Google Books. Ya done good. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/calling-the-wind-mariah/450943.md?page=2)