Calling Up the Inactive Reserves?!

[Age_Quod_Agis]

@Zagadka

Unless you’re in China, then it is kinda important.

Come to think of it, **AQA]/b], I think they may have some employment opportunities for people like you!

I don’t even know what this is supposed to mean. Is it supposed to be some kind of insult?

Look, I understand that some people take these arguments very personally, but this isn’t the Pit. I’d appreciate it if you’d limit the personal attacks to 3 per thread.

Now to your article critical of the American army’s ability to maintain it’s supply lines. First of all, let’s talk about your source. Phillip Carter is a retired general that has made a career out of writing articles critical of the war in Iraq. Although that doesn’t mean that he’s lying or wrong, it does appear that he’s willing to put the worst spin on any facts.

Second, your article doesn’t say that the military is running out of supplies. It says that they’re asking for more money to buy more supplies, which implies that more supplies may be had very easily. It says that we’re using many of our pre-positioned supplies to fight the war in Iraq. So I guess you weren’t making that part up so much as exaggerating for effect.

And those pre-po supplies have been “tapped,” in the sense that some of them have been used. But they haven’t been “tapped” in the sense that they’re all used up. According to your buddy Phillip Carter:

In testimony on March 24 before Congress, senior Army and Marine Corps officials said that they had tapped into the pre-po stocks in order to outfit the units that fought in Iraq. The Army downloaded three of its five brigade-sized sets in order to fight in Iraq, and the Marines used equipment from 11 of their 16 pre-po ships. Nearly all of this equipment continues to be used today in Iraq. Consequently, America’s pre-po stocks are tied up in Iraq, and there is no foreseeable date when the Army and the Marine Corps will put their stuff back into the piggy bank.

So much of the pre-po equipment is still being held in reserve. And in addition, when we’re done in Iraq, we’ll be able to put much of the pre-po equipment we’re using back into storage. Further confirmation from the GAO. From the GAO:

Much of the prepositioned equipment is still being used to support continuing operations in Iraq.

However, your claim that we’ve deployed all our armor from Germany is made up. The article you linked doesn’t say anything about it, and your claim doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. For example, if we’ve already deployed all our armor, then how did we deploy more armor from Germany just three weeks ago? Plus, this article (published yesterday) says:

A Pentagon spokesman on Friday confirmed the United States was planning withdraw its tanks and other heavy armor from Germany in the coming years, as part of Washington’s efforts to restructure the global deployment of its forces.

So the Pentagon seems to think we’ve got tanks and armor in Germany. Do you have some information that the Pentagon doesn’t?

You also appear to have made up the claim that most of the units in America have been stripped.

You also appear to have made up the claim that our industry is not geared to produce what we need. (Are you not aware that this country has a thriving defense industry?)

Fighting a war certainly depletes our military supplies. But that by itself is a Prufrockian reason not to fight a war. The pre-po supplies are there to be used to support our troops in theater. If we didn’t use them then they’re wasted. If the supplies aren’t there to be used, then what’s the point of having them?

[alaricthegoth]

http://www.observer.com/pages/conason.asp

Sgt. Mejia is soon to litigate a “nuremberg” defense to a desertion charge.

Where is the lawyer with time on his hands and a few years left in the inactive reserves to bring a declaratory action forestalling being called to commit war crimes?

[RTFirefly]

@David Simmons

1. Asking for an increase in the authorized armed forces would have raised some doubt on the administration’s position that we would be hailed in Iraq as liberators.

I was thinking of Sept-Oct 2001, when only the Bushies knew that Iraq was in our gunsights. So that PR problem didn’t exist yet.

3. GW Bush seems only to get a grand vision from God, with the details left unattended to. This might be called the “God will provide” military method.

True, but he would have assumed Rumsfeld would deal with the details.

2. Asking for the increase would have thown a little shadow on Rummy’s campaign to have a smaller and modernized military to fight what he called today’s battles.

I think that’s probably it. My first thought was, “surely even Rumsfeld would want more firepower, just in case,” but he had a theory to prove, and few things are as dangerous as a theoretician who thinks he has all the answers.

@thinksnow

I really don’t see what the problem is. You’ve got the active duty folks, the Active Reserves and the Inactive Ready Reserves. Lemme clue you folks in on something here: they are all in the military roster and as such, yes, they are available for duty at the decision of those in charge.

Yeah, I pointed that out in the OP. Maybe someone else in here raised that issue, thinksnow, but this wasn’t intended as a “those poor abused folks in the IRR” thread.

It was intended as a “it’s as legal as church on Sunday, but isn’t it a pretty exceptional measure?” thread.

What the problem is, is that our military doesn’t appear to have much slack in it right now. And a lot of anecdotal evidence is popping up that as a consequence, many of our soldiers in Iraq don’t have much slack left in them either.

I can’t see how this will be good for our efforts in Iraq, or in Afghanistan, or in any other place if a need arises for us to intervene. Nor do I think it will be good for our military.

[JRDelirious]

@Stuffy

Does anyoe know a quick way to find out if you’re still on IRR or not? I lost my documents in a fire and haven’t bothered to replace them yet.

If you were an Enlisted Member and only went in for one term, IRR ends for you on the 8th anniversary of taking the oath.

[Zagadka]

@Age Quod Agis

I don’t even know what this is supposed to mean. Is it supposed to be some kind of insult?

Just pointing out that your boots-on-the-ground logic applies more to the Chinese army than the US army. Sorry if you didn’t get it the first time.

Look, I understand that some people take these arguments very personally, but this isn’t the Pit. I’d appreciate it if you’d limit the personal attacks to 3 per thread.

I forget… am I supposed to yell “Strawman!” or “Cite?” here?

Now to your article critical of the American army’s ability to maintain it’s supply lines. First of all, let’s talk about your source. Phillip Carter is a retired general that has made a career out of writing articles critical of the war in Iraq. Although that doesn’t mean that he’s lying or wrong, it does appear that he’s willing to put the worst spin on any facts.

As we all know, every member of the military and government who has retired, quit, or been fired is instantly corrupt and enters an agenda to spread vicious lies. Yep.

Second, your article doesn’t say that the military is running out of supplies. It says that they’re asking for more money to buy more supplies, which implies that more supplies may be had very easily. It says that we’re using many of our pre-positioned supplies to fight the war in Iraq. So I guess you weren’t making that part up so much as exaggerating for effect.

Please. That is just one page. Sit down and read the last few issues of G2Mil that I cited for you. They go on in detail about how units still in America have stripped their supplies to send to Iraq.

And those pre-po supplies have been “tapped,” in the sense that some of them have been used. But they haven’t been “tapped” in the sense that they’re all used up. According to your buddy Phillip Carter:So much of the pre-po equipment is still being held in reserve. And in addition, when we’re done in Iraq, we’ll be able to put much of the pre-po equipment we’re using back into storage.

Well, no shit, Sherlock. If you take all your toys off your shelf, you can put them back on the shelf when you’re done and pretend like they were never used.

I mean, except for all the ones that died.

For example, if we’ve already deployed all our armor, then how did we deploy more armor from Germany just three weeks ago? Plus, this article (published yesterday) says:So the Pentagon seems to think we’ve got tanks and armor in Germany. Do you have some information that the Pentagon doesn’t?

So we left a few hundred behind. Big surprise. Stop being a literalist and try some reasoning.

You also appear to have made up the claim that most of the units in America have been stripped.

Maybe you can go back and read my cites.

You also appear to have made up the claim that our industry is not geared to produce what we need. (Are you not aware that this country has a thriving defense industry?)

Your entire argument so far is “I didn’t bother to read your source, therefore, you are a liar, just like everyone else who disagrees with my professional opinion and years of training and study of the military, unlike those stupid retired generals who know diddly squat”… would you care to expand on it? Maybe you can go into a bit about how our industry IS geared up to mass produce weapons of war?

[Mr.Moto]

@JRDelirious

If you were an Enlisted Member and only went in for one term, IRR ends for you on the 8th anniversary of taking the oath.

That’s true. But time in the Delayed Entry Program counts toward this obligation, since, upon entry into it, theoretically you can be sent to boot camp at any time.

My final obligation to the Navy ended in February, 2001, less than eight years after my entry into boot camp in May, 1993. The remainder of the obligation was time spent in Delayed Entry. Eight years, total, with five spent on active duty.

[Age_Quod_Agis]

@Zagadka

Just pointing out that your boots-on-the-ground logic applies more to the Chinese army than the US army. Sorry if you didn’t get it the first time.

I got that part. But what does that have to do with them having a slot for me? That’s what I don’t understand.

I forget… am I supposed to yell “Strawman!” or “Cite?” here?

Neither. Because neither is applicable. But I’m in awe of your ability to make a personal attack while responding to my request that you limit the personal attacks.

As we all know, every member of the military and government who has retired, quit, or been fired is instantly corrupt and enters an agenda to spread vicious lies. Yep.

I never said that. In fact, I said the opposite. Do you plan on responding to my arguments or just making up ones of your own?

Please. That is just one page. Sit down and read the last few issues of G2Mil that I cited for you. They go on in detail about how units still in America have stripped their supplies to send to Iraq.

First of all, it’s your burden. You made the assertion, so it’s your burden to back it up with cites. Merely saying, “It’s in there somewhere” isn’t good enough. If you’re going to make ridiculous assertions, you need to be able to provide some evidence for them.

Well, no shit, Sherlock. If you take all your toys off your shelf, you can put them back on the shelf when you’re done and pretend like they were never used.

I mean, except for all the ones that died.

Or the ones that haven’t been used. You seem to have a habit of ignoring facts that don’t fit into your biases.

So we left a few hundred behind. Big surprise. Stop being a literalist and try some reasoning.

Got it. So I just misinterpreted your post that “The armor in Germany was already redeployed to Iraq.” Here I read it to imply that there was a problem with the number of armor left in Germany. My bad. :rolleyes:

Your entire argument so far is “I didn’t bother to read your source, therefore, you are a liar, just like everyone else who disagrees with my professional opinion and years of training and study of the military, unlike those stupid retired generals who know diddly squat”… would you care to expand on it?

Actually, my argument so far is that you haven’t produced a cite to support anything you’ve said. Instead, you’ve attempted to formulate an argument out of sheer mirepresentation and personal attacks. In fact, you haven’t rebutted any of the places that I pointed out your misrepresentations and exaggerations.

Forgive me if I have a hard time responding to smoke and deception except to point out that it lacks substance. Maybe if you bring your arguments back into the real world, I’ll be able to argue in a manner more to your liking.

[RTFirefly]

Link.

Thousands of recent U.S. Army veterans nationwide were told to choose by Monday a new assignment in the Army Reserve or National Guard – meaning a potential return to active duty – or the military would decide for them. The Army now says the order was a mistake.

The consequence of the error appears to be a sharp increase in enlistments in Oregon and elsewhere by reservists who feared being assigned a unit without their consent. They face possible deployment to the Middle East.

Army Reserve officials said the order issued in early May prompted a flood of calls from confused veterans, who are among the estimated 118,000 reservists on inactive status. The Pentagon is not yet forcing re-enlistments but is “screening” inactive reservists for possible call-up, a spokeswoman said.

Nonetheless, e-mails and phone calls from military recruiters went out this month warning veterans that they could be involuntarily placed in active Army Reserve units.

Dunno where or how high up the mistake was made, but it was a mistake with details, as this photo of the memo that went out to people on IRR status indicates.

Anyway, it seems there will be no call-up of the IRRs just yet.