# "CAM" vets should be charged with animal cruelty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902 "2018-01-31T18:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/1 "2018-01-31T18:14:09Z")
My husky had a simple cut pad escalate to a abscess because the vet prescribed what ended up being a herbal/homeopathic cream instead of a product that actually works. I not informed that this vet was prescribing a non-evidence based solution, and now she is suffering far more than she would have with just a normal product. Quit forcing your damn religious beliefs onto animals and unsuspecting consumers. Water doesn’t have flipping memory and your entire field is bullshit. You should serve time for causing unnecessary pain and suffering. Unlike humans they cannot choose to suffer based on religious myths. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/2 "2018-01-31T18:22:23Z")
What the hell is a “CAM” vet? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/3 "2018-01-31T18:34:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What the hell is a “CAM” vet? Complementary and Alternative Medicines, but it was took some digging to figure it out. ETA, I agree, if the person that treated your pet is an actual DVM, I’d probably look into discussing what happened with some kind of higher ups. A licensing board of some kind. A doctor of any kind (vet, MD, dentist etc) shouldn’t be treating a pet or human with homeopathics unknowingly. If you want that for yourself, that’s find, but it’s not what you wanted and certainly not what you expected. I assume nothing on the front of the building, in the reception area or the room made it obvious the dog wasn’t going to get actual meds. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/4 "2018-01-31T18:35:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What the hell is a “CAM” vet? Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Woo-woo! ETA: I’d file a complaint with whoever licenses vets. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/5 "2018-01-31T19:05:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > My husky had a simple cut pad escalate to a abscess because the vet prescribed what ended up being a herbal/homeopathic cream instead of a product that actually works. > > I not informed that this vet was prescribing a non-evidence based solution, (post shortened) Sorry to hear about your dog, but perhaps you should have googled the name of what-ever-it-was the almost vet prescribed, at your earliest opportunity? It’s easier/safer to make adjustments, and changes, at the beginning of treatment. just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/6 "2018-01-31T19:13:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Sorry to hear about your dog, but perhaps you should have googled the name of what-ever-it-was the almost vet prescribed, at your earliest opportunity? It’s easier/safer to make adjustments, and changes, at the beginning of treatment. just sayin’ Perhaps the patient should be able to trust the doctor to not be a woo moron. Typical blame the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/7 "2018-01-31T19:55:08Z")
Possibly a slight, possibly a real nitpick: there’s a difference between “herbal” and “homeopathic.” Some herbal remedies are fairly effective and evidence-based treatments for conditions: aloe vera as a treatment for burns has [documented benefits](https://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe). True homeopathic remedies are, in sufficient quantities, effective treatments for dehydration, but nothing else. So, do you know whether it was a regular herbal treatment, or a homeopathic one? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/8 "2018-01-31T20:42:21Z")
Check if there is any sort of licensing board that you can file a complaint with. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Perhaps the patient should be able to trust the doctor[…] That would be nice, but this a good way to end up dead. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/9 "2018-01-31T21:23:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Perhaps the patient should be able to trust the doctor to not be a woo moron. > Typical blame the victim. Hahahaha. Trust, but verify. You and your dog (if you have a dog) will live longer. The “victim” is the dog, and nobody seems to be doing a very good job of watching out for the dog. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/10 "2018-01-31T21:32:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Possibly a slight, possibly a real nitpick: there’s a difference between “herbal” and “homeopathic.” Some herbal remedies are fairly effective and evidence-based treatments for conditions: aloe vera as a treatment for burns has [documented benefits](https://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe). > > True homeopathic remedies are, in sufficient quantities, effective treatments for dehydration, but nothing else. > > So, do you know whether it was a regular herbal treatment, or a homeopathic one? In theory you are correct, but is not a meaningful delimiter in reality. in States that allow “Naturopathic Physicians” to be registered, and which legitimize the sale of said products in the state by other medical professions only do so through the Homeopathic exception. Note how Bastyr University is one of the larger schools that are allowed. [https://www.doh.wa.gov/LicensesPermitsandCertificates/ProfessionsNewReneworUpdate/NaturopathicPhysician/LicenseRequirements](https://www.doh.wa.gov/LicensesPermitsandCertificates/ProfessionsNewReneworUpdate/NaturopathicPhysician/LicenseRequirements) Feel free to look over Bastyr’s curriculum, but homeopathic classes are always required. > **[Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine | Bastyr University](https://bastyr.edu/academics/naturopathic-medicine/doctoral/naturopathic-doctorate)** > > Become a naturopathic doctor by earning your doctorate in naturopathic medicine at Bastyr University, an accredited naturopathic medical school. Because the non-scientific loophole that allowed these untested methods to be shilled by snakeoil salesman depends on that ancient anti-scientific exemption. Otherwise remedies that could pass the scientific muster under an evidence based model could just be called medicine. While I will not post the product information until I consider possible legal remedies, the tube of BS also was marked as a Homeopathic Remedy. This is exactly the same way that BS products like Flexall 454 and Zicam were sold. They short circuit the ability for any consumer protection group to regulate the claims until damage happens due to that pre-germ theory BS. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/11 "2018-01-31T22:11:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > This is exactly the same way that BS products like Flexall 454 and Zicam were sold. Ok, I know the Zicam story but what is the issue with Flexall 454? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/12 "2018-01-31T23:17:51Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Ok, I know the Zicam story but what is the issue with Flexall 454? I’d never heard of it either, I looked at it online, it’s just Menthol in a cream base. It’s basically the same as Bengay. From what I can tell there’s other variations of it out there, just like Bengay, that have Camphor or methyl salicylate (a pain reliever, I assume it’s related to asprin). I’ve never heard of Bengay being woo, maybe it is, I’ve never tried it for anything real, I just remember when we were kids we’d see how much we could put on our arms/legs before it got too warm. Anyways, yes, products marked as homeopathic don’t go through FDA testing IIRC. But it’s probably still worth talking to someone, somewhere to see if a DVM should be telling you that they’ll heal your pet, especially when you brought your pet there expecting traditional Western/conventional/Science backed/etc medicine. IOW, you thought you were getting a tube of antibiotics. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/13 "2018-02-01T01:42:00Z")
What does alternative medicine have to do with religious beliefs? It’s bullshit, but not necessarily religious. (Yeah, the vet is a tool and I’d definitely file a complaint) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/14 "2018-02-01T01:50:06Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’d never heard of it either, I looked at it online, it’s just Menthol in a cream base. It’s basically the same as Bengay. From what I can tell there’s other variations of it out there, just like Bengay, that have Camphor or methyl salicylate (a pain reliever, I assume it’s related to asprin). > > I’ve never heard of Bengay being woo, maybe it is, I’ve never tried it for anything real, I just remember when we were kids we’d see how much we could put on our arms/legs before it got too warm. > > Anyways, yes, products marked as homeopathic don’t go through FDA testing IIRC. But it’s probably still worth talking to someone, somewhere to see if a DVM should be telling you that they’ll heal your pet, especially when you brought your pet there expecting traditional Western/conventional/Science backed/etc medicine. IOW, you thought you were getting a tube of antibiotics. “Homeopathic products are similar to dietary supplements, in that the FDA does not review their safety or effectiveness before they are sold. But unlike supplements, homeopathic medicines can state that they are intended for specific medical symptoms and conditions, similar to drugs” The claimed use is the case with zicam etc… > **[FDA officials to target high-risk alternative remedies](https://www.statnews.com/2017/12/18/homeopathic-medicines-fda/)** > > The Food and Drug Administration issued a new proposal for regulating homeopathic medicines that have long been on the fringe of mainstream medicine. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/15 "2018-02-01T01:58:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What does alternative medicine have to do with religious beliefs? It’s bullshit, but not necessarily religious. > > (Yeah, the vet is a tool and I’d definitely file a complaint) They are both faith based. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/16 "2018-02-01T02:12:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Perhaps the patient should be able to trust the doctor to not be a woo moron. Having supervised and reviewed the performance of dozens of my fellow physicians over the last 20+ years of my career, I have to say that I do **not** trust the average doctor to not be a woo moron. I’ve seen US residency trained, board certified MDs embrace homeopathy, aromatherapy, aura manipulation and worse. While it’s definitely a minority, there are a LOT of physicians out there who have succumbed to the woo and don’t practice evidence-based medicine. Sadly, the patient must be cautious. So ask questions. And if you’re not satisfied by the answers, don’t settle. Check out other docs. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/17 "2018-02-01T02:34:19Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > While I will not post the product information until I consider possible legal remedies, the tube of BS also was marked as a Homeopathic Remedy. Why would you use a product that says “Homeopathic Remedy” right on it? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/18 "2018-02-01T03:18:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why would you use a product that says “Homeopathic Remedy” right on it? It was in the fine print, it looks like any antimicrobial wound agent, until you see that it’s “active ingredients” are _oxygenated olive oil, calendula, and lavender essential oil_ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/19 "2018-02-01T03:23:49Z")
So it didn’t actually say “Homeopathic Remedy” on the tube? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/20 "2018-02-01T03:28:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So it didn’t actually say “Homeopathic Remedy” on the tube? Nope, but a cut paw and some stitches has gone bad because it is only through the Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States (HPUS) that it is sold with the claims it has. What is your point? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902.md?page=2)