# "CAM" vets should be charged with animal cruelty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902 "2018-01-31T18:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/21 "2018-02-01T13:38:30Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Check if there is any sort of licensing board that you can file a complaint with. Licensing Boards often have limited regulatory control when it comes to CAM, and it varies by state. Locally there is a “Doctor” who is a naturopath. He uses ear-candles, uses a patient’s aura diagnostically, and does “natural chemo”. People have complained, yet he is free to practice, since “naturopaths” police their own ranks in PA. Have a complaint? Talk to the Naturopath Regulatory Board. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/22 "2018-02-01T13:45:12Z")
Homeopathy is quackery and should be outlawed. The “science” behind it is total rubbish. Why civilized nations allow this ripoff to continue, for human or animal treatment, baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/23 "2018-02-01T13:45:19Z")
Well, marigold (calendula) is good for treating wounds (it is an anti-inflammatory), olive oil is also good for wounds (keeps them moist so they heal up plus is an anti-inflammatory) and lavender is also antiseptic and anti-inflammatory. Now, if the salve did not work and the wound was getting worse it is up to you, the human, to ask for something different. Same as if you were given a tube of antibiotics and it didn’t work to heal the wound (which could happen if there was some foreign matter still in the foot pad or if the wound healed shut but a pocket of pus formed etc). ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/24 "2018-02-01T14:09:34Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Licensing Boards often have limited regulatory control when it comes to CAM, and it varies by state. Locally there is a “Doctor” who is a naturopath. He uses ear-candles, uses a patient’s aura diagnostically, and does “natural chemo”. People have complained, yet he is free to practice, since “naturopaths” police their own ranks in PA. Have a complaint? Talk to the Naturopath Regulatory Board. Is it a vet or a “vet”? That’s why I suggested the OP check. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/25 "2018-02-01T14:21:21Z")
Some products are marketed as “homeopathic” when they are not - i.e. they have supposedly active ingredients far in excess of what would be found in a highly diluted traditional homeopathic remedy. This appears designed to skirt regulations for usual drugs, and/or to appeal to people who think “homeopathic” means natural/good, as opposed to nasty ol’ allopathic medicine. It’s hard to tell from the OP if the stuff in that vet cream is present at homeopathic levels or not. If the calendula, lavender etc. is there at (for instance) at 30C dilution, it’s a homeopathic product and (in my opinion) a vet has no business prescribing it for a wound that’s at risk for infection. If the “active ingredients” are present at non-super-diluted levels, then the medication falls more into a dubious rather than outright quack category. Checking the uses of these herbal agents, I don’t see super-convincing evidence of their efficacy for wound healing (for instance, WebMD cites insufficient evidence for calendula). A partial list of indications for calendula (same source, all with “insufficient evidence” for the cited uses): _Anal tears (anal fissures). Diaper rash. Ear infections (otitis media). Skin inflammation due to radiation therapy (radiation dermatitis). Thinning of the wall of the vagina (vaginal atrophy). Leg ulcers. Muscle spasms. Fever. Cancer. Nosebleeds. Varicose veins. Hemorrhoids. Promoting menstruation. Treating mouth and throat soreness. Wounds. Other conditions._ A list like this suggests application of Jackmannii’s First Law of Quackery, which states that the more conditions a drug or supplement is claimed to treat, the less likely that it’s effective for any one of them. I am sad to say that woo appears to have infiltrated veterinary medicine at least as much as its human counterpart. When we were getting our Lab treated for lymphoma recently (using evidence-based care), I noted that the specialized veterinary cancer clinic where she was being seen also offered acupuncture and other vet-woo. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/26 "2018-02-01T19:01:15Z")
I’m pretty sure the OP is a pharmacist. If he doesn’t notice, what hope is there for us laypeople? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/27 "2018-02-01T19:02:47Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Nope, but a cut paw and some stitches has gone bad because it is only through the Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States (HPUS) that it is sold with the claims it has. > > What is your point? HPUS? That seems like a clue right there. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/28 "2018-02-01T19:04:10Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > It was in the fine print… Yeah, but homeopathy only needs a couple of tiny letters to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/29 "2018-02-01T19:33:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’ve seen US residency trained, board certified MDs embrace homeopathy, aromatherapy, aura manipulation and worse. It’s easy for them to embrace, once they check out the profit margins on that junk. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/30 "2018-02-01T21:43:14Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > Well, marigold (calendula) is good for treating wounds (it is an anti-inflammatory), olive oil is also good for wounds (keeps them moist so they heal up plus is an anti-inflammatory) and lavender is also antiseptic and anti-inflammatory. > > Now, if the salve did not work and the wound was getting worse it is up to you, the human, to ask for something different. Same as if you were given a tube of antibiotics and it didn’t work to heal the wound (which could happen if there was some foreign matter still in the foot pad or if the wound healed shut but a pocket of pus formed etc). Please provide an at least double-blind clinical study. All of the products in place seem to be provings, or basic 60min petridish tests. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/31 "2018-02-01T21:44:41Z")
> [@simster](#): > > HPUS? > > That seems like a clue right there. I had to go look up the ingredients, that part was not on the product. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/32 "2018-02-01T21:57:18Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > Now, if the salve did not work and the wound was getting worse it is up to you, the human, to ask for something different. Same as if you were given a tube of antibiotics and it didn’t work to heal the wound (which could happen if there was some foreign matter still in the foot pad or if the wound healed shut but a pocket of pus formed etc). Victim blaming there, I was discouraged from using Neosporin or other products. And I did call about some tenderness and they suggested that I increase frequency of applications but to not change to another product. I escalated and got a second opinion, and the vet mentioned that the product was inappropriate and I started to research why. That is when I discovered that it was based on hopes and dreams for money and some fetish around “natural” healthy rather than sound modern medical best practices. But as you are shifting blame, how do you know that they didn’t replace Betadine with some other woofilled product, and that improper wound care allowed the infection to take hold? If these snakeoil salespeople were willing to mark their products clearly as being based on faith vs science I would maybe see some validity to your claim but it took a lot of work to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/33 "2018-02-01T22:04:37Z")
Ever hear of this nonsense, pet acupuncture? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/34 "2018-02-01T22:20:55Z")
Sure. My cat subjects me to it regularly. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/35 "2018-02-01T22:21:20Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Please provide an at least double-blind clinical study. > > All of the products in place seem to be provings, or basic 60min petridish tests. I’ll just offer up one: “Pharmacological studies reveal that C. officinalis exhibits antibacterial, antiviral, anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor and antioxidant properties; C. arvensis possesses antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic and hemolytic activities; and C. suffruticosa exhibits antimicrobial activity” > **[A review on phytochemistry and ethnopharmacological aspects of genus Calendula](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841996/)** > > This review includes 84 references on the genus Calendula (Asteraceae) and comprises ethnopharmacology, morphology and microscopy, phytoconstituents, pharmacological reports, clinical studies and toxicology of the prominent species of Calendula.... ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/36 "2018-02-01T23:32:02Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Sure. My cat subjects me to it regularly. Every time I actually laugh at a one-liner, I look afterward and it’s one of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/37 "2018-02-02T01:30:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Sure. My cat subjects me to it regularly. I like your joke, but what I’m talking about is a real thing. Of course that’s real as in people have an acupuncturist (charlatan) inflict that abuse on the animal, as opposed to being a real effective treatment. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/38 "2018-02-02T01:53:33Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > I’ll just offer up one: > > “Pharmacological studies reveal that C. officinalis exhibits antibacterial, antiviral, anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor and antioxidant properties; C. arvensis possesses antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic and hemolytic activities; and C. suffruticosa exhibits antimicrobial activity” > [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841996/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841996/) I was going to check their numbers…until the “cleansing and detoxifying” turkey tracks poped up. > [@](#): > > Calendula is a cleansing and detoxifying herb and the infusion treat chronic infections. And note the citations: 1. Dumenil G, Chemli R, Balansard C, Guiraud H, Lallemand M. Evaluation of antibacterial properties of marigold flowers (Calendula officinalis L.) and **mother homeopathic tinctures of C.** officinalis L. and C. arvensis L. (author’s transl) Ann Pharm Fr. 1980;38:493–9. And no clinical trials on that use… ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/39 "2018-02-02T04:15:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Trust, but verify. You and your dog (if you have a dog) will live longer. > > The “victim” is the dog, and nobody seems to be doing a very good job of watching out for the dog. How often to you have to trace down and read low quality studies looking for vague references to homeopathy? While one should always research, veterinary medical community and the human health care community should be focused on the safety and efficacy of medical therapies should be established by scientific methods and that unsafe and ineffective therapies should not be employed. Quackery has limited the FDAs Mission > [@](#): > > FDA Mission. The Food and Drug Administration is responsible for protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices; and by ensuring the safety of our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation. And please justify the entire role of state licenseure and certification of the medical profession is there is zero responsibility for those who practice to actually act in a fashion that considers the safety and efficacy. To quote the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee review of homeopathy: > [@](#): > > “For patient choice to be real choice, patients must be adequately informed to understand the implications of treatments. For homeopathy this would certainly require an explanation that homeopathy is a placebo. When this is not done, patient choice is meaningless.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/40 "2018-02-02T04:32:13Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Nope, but a cut paw and some stitches has gone bad because it is only through the Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States (HPUS) that it is sold with the claims it has. > > What is your point? My point was that you posted that the “tube of BS also was marked as a Homeopathic Remedy” and I was wondering why you used it if it was marked as such. And it turns out it was not marked as such. I just wondered why you would use something like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902.md?page=3)