# "CAM" vets should be charged with animal cruelty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902 "2018-01-31T18:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/41 "2018-02-02T04:47:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > My point was that you posted that the “tube of BS also was marked as a Homeopathic Remedy” and I was wondering why you used it if it was marked as such. And it turns out it was not marked as such. I just wondered why you would use something like that. That was a typo sorry, I intended to say: “tube of BS also was marked as medicine but was a Homeopathic Remedy” ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/42 "2018-02-02T04:52:06Z")
Well fuck…I like my state but it looks like this BS is officially sanctioned. > [@](#): > > WAC 246-933-460 > Organizations, institutions or individuals approved by the veterinary board to provide continuing education courses. > \ > (j) The Registry of Alternative and Integrative Veterinary Medical Education (RAIVE). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/43 "2018-02-02T04:57:23Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > I’ll just offer up one: > > “Pharmacological studies reveal that C. officinalis exhibits antibacterial, antiviral, anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor and antioxidant properties; C. arvensis possesses antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antimutagenic and hemolytic activities; and C. suffruticosa exhibits antimicrobial activity” > [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841996/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841996/) Yeah, that’s a review article. There are a lot of citations to the effect that it “is used for” various indications, which is not at all the same as saying that it “is actually useful for” any of those indications. There are citations of petri dish and animal studies which are interesting, but which don’t remotely constitute conclusive evidence of efficacy. Lastly there are some small human clinical trials, which suggest that it is superior to placebo for treatment of burns, dermatitis, and venous ulcers; no studies have been conducted on incisions in dog paws. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with the article; it’s useful to summarize the claims that have been made for the plant, even if said claims aren’t backed by evidence. And the authors don’t seem to be making any claims that go beyond the available evidence. But there’s nothing here that changes my view that it’s malpractice to prescribe this to someone who assumes they are getting an actual antibiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/44 "2018-02-02T09:07:27Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Yeah, but homeopathy only needs a couple of tiny letters to be effective. Now THAT was funny. Funnier would have been, homeopathy only needs a couple of tiny letters to provide an effective warning. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/45 "2018-02-02T12:35:24Z")
I went to a homeopath. He sent me a bill for a $100. I took a $1 bill, tore it in 10 pieces, and then tore one of the pieces into 10 more pieces, and sent him one of those pieces. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/46 "2018-02-02T20:22:46Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > I went to a homeopath. He sent me a bill for a $100. I took a $1 bill, tore it in 10 pieces, and then tore one of the pieces into 10 more pieces, and sent him one of those pieces. I like it! Even better would have been to soak the bill in a phial of water for a while, then dilute the phial’s water. Don’t forget the succussion. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Homeopathy is quackery and should be outlawed. The “science” behind it is total rubbish. Why civilized nations allow this ripoff to continue, for human or animal treatment, baffles me. I can’t answer for other countries’ regulations, but in ours, “supplements” and homeopathic “remedies” had a [powerful friend](http://edzardernst.com/2018/01/senator-orrin-hatch-the-supplement-industry-and-utter-lack-of-integrity/) until recently. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/47 "2018-02-02T20:33:03Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > That was a typo sorry, > > I intended to say: > > “tube of BS also was marked as medicine but was a Homeopathic Remedy” Oh ok. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/48 "2018-02-02T20:54:45Z")
The fundamental disconnect seems that in some peoples world view “natural” means health or good for you. The reason I am not surprised that plant material have antibacterial properties is because the reality is that many of these compounds evolved due to an escalation of warfare. Many tastes and flavors we like are actually weapons for the plants against other targets, some bitter tastes in vegetables are powerful insecticides as an example. In some cases we get lucky and we can leverage those features for flavorings and other times for medical purposes. But it is unknown until we test it if that property will still have the same action under another application. It may be that the pH of skin changes that behavior, or that the material is only effective when in a solvent. In the case of marigold flowers it seems that all of the currently know antibacterial effects require a methylated extraction method and carrier to have a reasonable amount of effectiveness. Yet the product I was prescribed does not use that method. I think sometimes people who subscribe to a belief in homeopathic methods miss that point. It is not that I am saying there are no compounds to be found or leveraged that may help. But that the well discredited core fundamental tenants of homeopathy actually block the discovery and use of those properties. It is by discarding valid scientific methods that homeopathic claims fail and the fact that there may be a useful component to their myths is pure accident. By shilling this fundamental error onto consumers without their connect it actually prevents the discovery of real “natural” cures. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/49 "2018-02-02T21:42:45Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Well fuck…I like my state but it looks like this BS is officially sanctioned. Sounds like a bunch of raving woo-pushers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902/50 "2018-02-03T02:34:50Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The reason I am not surprised that plant material have antibacterial properties is because the reality is that many of these compounds evolved due to an escalation of warfare. Lots of substances, “natural” or otherwise have antibacterial activity, at least in test tube/cell culture conditions.\* The trick is developing a formulation that’s effective (and safe\*\*) in the human or other mammalian body. \*[relevant xkcd cartoon](http://www.forumphyto.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1409xkcdInVitro.jpg) (substitute “bacteria” for “cancer”). \*\*while calendula (for instance) seems to be relatively non-toxic as herbs go, it’s not without associated problems. For instance, it and other members of the Compositae are known to induce allergic reactions in susceptible people, as I found out years ago after recommending that a family member afflicted with migraines try feverfew (which has modest research/clinical trial backing for that purpose). She had to stop taking it after developing an itchy rash. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cam-vets-should-be-charged-with-animal-cruelty/807902.md?page=2)