# Cameras at volleyball games **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939 "2008-09-30T23:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![warmgun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@warmgun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/warmgun)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/21 "2008-10-01T06:32:37Z")
It sounds like a case of ‘Yes, I’m letting my daughter perform in public’, ‘Yes, I’m letting my daughter perform in public wearing clothing I don’t approve of’ and ‘But just because I can’t stand up to my daughter doesn’t mean you can photograph her’. I second reading **runner pat** ’s link. I hate that kind of shit. Ugh… ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/22 "2008-10-01T07:21:21Z")
Look, there are young, attractive girls in nearly-obscene outfits running and jumping around, just waiting to be photographed. Call me crazy, but maybe just one or two men might find that alluring. I think it’s wrong, the way they make female volleyballers dress. I’m not a parent, but I am a man, and it’s very titillating. Never seen a high-school game, but the Olympics gave me a very warm feeling. If I were a pervert (I’m not, I swear), I just might check out the **open to the public** game down at Our Lady of the Sacred Bloody Dagger and take some pictures. However, some people just get paid to take pictures at high-school sporting events. Make sure the kid is smart and aware, and hope that I’m wrong. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/23 "2008-10-01T08:32:04Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > And on the subject of ‘what kind of vibes’, well, that implies some sort of paranormal ability. > > ‘vibes’ are BS. I’d strongly recommend reading _The Gift of Fear_ by Gavin de Becker. Intuition is not BS and it can frequently save lives. There’s nothing magic about it; having a sense of what adds up to “dangerous” is an evolutionary advantage to prey animals. That said, I’m not getting the outrage, here. The kids are fully clothed, people are photographing a public sporting event, and… ?? So? You can see spandex at the gym, or on the beach, or in a park. I wear spandex shorts in public parks to go for a run. When I swam competitively, I wore spandex swim suits. People even took pictures of me and my teammates, both in and out of the pool, during meets. What exactly do you think is going to happen if someone takes a picture of a fully-clothed volleyball player? I’m not getting the vulnerable angle, at all. I also don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that the local newspaper sent a photojournalist to cover the local high school sports. Or they are, in fact, parents, since it doesn’t seem anyone bothered to ask them. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/24 "2008-10-01T08:44:19Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > Look, there are young, attractive girls in nearly-obscene outfits running and jumping around, just waiting to be photographed. Call me crazy, but maybe just one or two men might find that alluring. Nearly obscene? They’re fully clothed. All bits are covered. And someone might find a girl’s _hair color_ alluring… what are you going to do, shave the kid bald? People are going to think whatever the hell they want. No one can stop that, and you’ll only make yourself crazy stressing out over whether some guy you never met and never interact with might possibly, maybe, might be thinking that your daughter is pretty. Unless the OP missed a few salient details, no one has been threatened here. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/25 "2008-10-01T09:04:35Z")
> [@kmsteiner](#): > > Dear Forum Friends, > > My daughter recently started on the schools volleyball team. I’d like some advice from other parents (or players, I guess) about something rather concerning. > > At my daughter’s first game (they won by the way!), I noticed at least two or three people in the audience who were taking pictures. Frankly, they just didn’t strike me as being other parents. Now I have no idea if I’m over reacting or what, but something makes me really uncomfortable about guys being at these games taking pictures. I feel that wearing the school’s proscribed uniform, my daughter is in a particularly vulnerable state if you catch my drift. I did actually speak with someone from the school, but they said that the games are essentially open to the public and they don’t currently have a policy about cameras at volleyball games. I don’t know if they were basically telling me to “get over it”, or if maybe I should. > > Any ideas, advice, experiences? > > Thanks. > Karen S. What do you propose be done about this? Ban photography at the games? Ban photography by non-parents at the games? Who’s to say a parent isn’t a paedophile? Why should I be restricted from taking legitimate photos of my own daughter because of someone else’s paranoia? ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/26 "2008-10-01T14:25:14Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Nearly obscene? They’re fully clothed. All bits are covered. And someone might find a girl’s _hair color_ alluring… what are you going to do, shave the kid bald? Sure, all bits are covered. But I submit that making barely pubescent girls wear unnecessarily skimpy outfits is nearly obscene. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/27 "2008-10-01T14:36:13Z")
Questions like this are my form of birth control. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/28 "2008-10-01T14:38:13Z")
The best thing you can do to keep your kid from being abused by perverts is to provide a safe and loving home life, teach her the warning signs of when someone is being creepy, and send her to a self defense class that teachers her how to be assertive when she does recognize a creep. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/29 "2008-10-01T15:14:50Z")
Here’s some of what I wrote in the old thread, FWIW. **Cartooniverse** , as usual, has some good thoughts about camera equipment, but here’s mine as well. * * * With regards to the photographers, it’s been my experience that light in gyms is usually pretty crappy for taking good photographs using standard camera equipment. By good I mean clear, focused, and well lit. To get the kind of shot that seems to be creeping you out, the photographer would need an extremely large and fast telephoto lens - - a lens so large that it gets the tripod, rather than the camera, as the lens weighs more. If the photographers are in the stands using regular 35mm style cameras, the odds are very very high that the most detail they can get is a full body shot. There’s not much gross-web-site worthy in a full body shot. If, however, they have a lens as long as their arm with a 6" or larger front diameter, then you might have a reason to be worried. If they are leaving the stands, getting about 5’ away from the players, squatting down, and aiming… well, then you might have a reason to be worried. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/30 "2008-10-01T15:23:09Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > what are you going to do, shave the kid bald? fap fap fap ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/31 "2008-10-01T15:26:21Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > Questions like this are my form of birth control. Thanks. Because it keeps you from going to high school volleyball games? 😕 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/32 "2008-10-01T15:30:50Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > I’d strongly recommend reading _The Gift of Fear_ by Gavin de Becker. Intuition is not BS and it can frequently save lives. There’s nothing magic about it; having a sense of what adds up to “dangerous” is an evolutionary advantage to prey animals. > > That said, I’m not getting the outrage, here. The kids are fully clothed, people are photographing a public sporting event, and… ?? So? You can see spandex at the gym, or on the beach, or in a park. I wear spandex shorts in public parks to go for a run. When I swam competitively, I wore spandex swim suits. People even took pictures of me and my teammates, both in and out of the pool, during meets. > > What exactly do you think is going to happen if someone takes a picture of a fully-clothed volleyball player? I’m not getting the vulnerable angle, at all. > > I also don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that the local newspaper sent a photojournalist to cover the local high school sports. Or they are, in fact, parents, since it doesn’t seem anyone bothered to ask them. And the point of _The Gift of Fear_ is that if you’re scared of stupid crap you won’t catch the signals when there’s something really wrong. My boyfriend has a video production company. He contracts with Prep Sports to photograph high school sporting events. He isn’t anybody’s parent. He has a moustache! Clearly he is After Your Daughter. I mean, he also photographs your son’s football games. Tight pants those boys wear, ain’t they? And your daughter’s tennis games in… little skirts! Oh, god, you know, he does track and field too, and some of those girls can be seen in _sports bras_? ---
**Author:** ![MissMossie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@MissMossie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissMossie)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/33 "2008-10-01T15:43:01Z")
> [@Ivorybill](#): > > With regards to the photographers, it’s been my experience that light in gyms is usually pretty crappy for taking good photographs using standard camera equipment. By good I mean clear, focused, and well lit. To get the kind of shot that seems to be creeping you out, the photographer would need an extremely large and fast telephoto lens - - a lens so large that it gets the tripod, rather than the camera, as the lens weighs more. That’s not entirely true. I do most of my shooting with a Nikon d40x, an entry level dSLR. This is not an uncommon camera for an amateur photographer to have. Right now, [keh.com](http://keh.com) (a great place to get used lenses) I could get a 50mm f1.4 lens for about fifty dollars that would be smaller than my kit lens. It would be fast enough for me to get good photos in crappy lighting. The lens length wouldn’t be too much of an issue for website use as I could always creatively crop. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/34 "2008-10-01T16:14:22Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > Probably any proud parent would consider it an eye-brow raising thing, if someone else in the audience turned around and took a picture of them. That’s creepy, not a friendly icebreaker. Meh — there’s ways to get that person’s picture. Take a picture of him with his daughter after the game, for instance (if he’s a parent). Take a picture of the crowd from a distance. I’m assuming that if the OP were sitting _right in front_ of him, she wouldn’t see him snapping pictures in the first place. I’m also assuming that in that position she could hear him cheering a particular player. Photographing someone in the crowd shouldn’t be the first reaction anyway; that presumes there is sufficient evidence for guilty behavior that it must be documented. I also suggested that she _introduce herself_ and meet the guy. Heaven forbid we actually meet the parents of the other children. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/35 "2008-10-01T17:30:47Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > Sure, all bits are covered. But I submit that making barely pubescent girls wear unnecessarily skimpy outfits is nearly obscene. > > Joe I propose you are acting unreasonably prudish and seeing perversity everywhere. First off, there is nothing inherently dirty, immoral, or obscene about the human body at any age. Athletes have worked hard to hone their skills and perform in challenging events that are fantastic subjects to photograph. Many sports necessitate thin or tight clothing so as not to impede movement. The fact that some people find these types of photos arousing is moot. The age of majority has nothing to do with either physical adulthood or mental capacity. It is nothing more than an arbitrary device that we have created to draw a line somewhere. Children in those outfits is no more “obscene”:rolleyes: than adults. To the OP: Get over the fact that your child is growing up, turn off Fox news, and have some faith in your parenting skills. Pedophiles do NOT lurk around every corner for Og’s Sake, and they certainly wouldn’t be caught hanging out taking pictures for the duration of an entire game where EVERYONE could ID them. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/36 "2008-10-01T17:43:19Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Heaven forbid we actually meet the parents of the other children. And heaven forbid we show a little restraint and observe the situation, without getting confrontational. Does anyone lay odds on the probability of a concerned parent walking up and talking to someone they’re worried is a sexual pervert and having things go at all well? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/37 "2008-10-01T18:35:48Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > And the point of _The Gift of Fear_ is that if you’re scared of stupid crap you won’t catch the signals when there’s something really wrong. I think the point of The Gift of Fear is to seperate money from easily frightened people. Did you realize that now, murder is the the number one cause of death of women, in the workplace? I guess since the shirtwaist factory doesn’t catch on fire so much. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/38 "2008-10-01T18:51:24Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I think the point of The Gift of Fear is to seperate money from easily frightened people. > > Did you realize that now, murder is the the number one cause of death of women, in the workplace? > > I guess since the shirtwaist factory doesn’t catch on fire so much. Did you read the book? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/39 "2008-10-01T19:01:59Z")
No, I read the blurbs from Amazon and I remember the guy on Oprah. The book has “This book could save your life” emblazoned across the cover. It’s basically like those local news spots “Which common household item could kill your child? Tune in at 11 to find out!” His own claim that America is getting more violent, (despite that violent crime has been declining) was propped up by the claim that for women the number one cause of death was murder (at the workplace). So ON THE JOB, a woman is mostly likely to die from being murdered. Does that mean crime is up or does it mean that workplace accidents are down. It means the latter, but twisting to get you to think it is the former sells his book. Women get battered and frequently they can tell when it is coming. Gee, could that be because she lives with her abuser and she can tell when he is in one of his moods? Does that mean she can sense ‘vibes’? This all started by me saying that ‘getting vibes’ off people is BS, remember? The book was touted as a ‘cite for vibes’. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_FNG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Some\_FNG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_FNG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939/40 "2008-10-01T19:07:54Z")
Now, for the other perspective… I am a professional news photographer and I find myself shooting high school girls volleyball quite often(among all of the other HS sports). I sit in the stands because of two reasons- it’s an elevated view of the action at the net and most importantly, I can sit down. I use an 80-200mm f/2.8 lens- it’s big and menacing. My camera, a D2x, can’t be confused with anything other than a high-end camera. I’ve used a 300mm f/2.8, but’s really too much lens for the average HS gym… anyone using one in this scenario is overachieving IMO. What’s the vibe that you’ll get from me? ANGER. I am most likely pissed off that the freakin’ match won’t start until 7:30pm at the earliest and more often closer to 8pm. To look at me, I am the scary-looking guy with the bad-ass camera and the one least likely to even attempt anything pervy with your kids. The guy you need to look out for is the happy, friendly guy that all the girls know and love- the family friend, the guy down the street, etc. Oh, whenever I get the parent that decides to check my credentials to see if I’m on the up and up, they get told that thanks to their mistrustful attitude that their team/child will not be featured in the next day’s sports section. I have enough crap to deal with during the day, I don’t need some self-appointed guardian getting in my face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cameras-at-volleyball-games/465939.md?page=3)