# Campaign soliciting foreign contributions -- What's the penalty? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000 "2016-08-16T17:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/1 "2016-08-16T17:21:29Z")
According to [this article](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/fundraising/291503-trump-campaign-apparently-soliciting-foreign-cash-despite-warnings) the Trump campaign is still soliciting donations from foreigners, despite being warned about this in the past. I suspect most campaigns would view this sort of allegation as a really bad thing and take steps to make sure it never happens again. The Trump campaign seems somewhat lackadaisical about it, and attributes it to being scammed. Assuming that it can be proven this latest solicitation was not in fact being scammed (and, let’s face it, incompetency seems more likely), what are the penalties? If monetary, are they high enough to offset any money actually received and the costs of putting in software to prevent the foreign solicitations from occurring? I am guessing that this isn’t the sort of crime that draws a prison sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/2 "2016-08-16T17:42:24Z")
Here’s the complaint made to the FCC about Trump’s fundraising solicitations sent to foreign officeholders: [http://www.campaignlegalcenter.org/sites/default/files/FEC%20Complaint%20Against%20Trump.pdf](http://www.campaignlegalcenter.org/sites/default/files/FEC%20Complaint%20Against%20Trump.pdf) Here are the U.S. Code provisions cited: > **[52 USC 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals](https://www.govregs.com/uscode/title52_subtitleIII_chapter301_subchapterI_section30121)** > > Searchable text of the 52 USC 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals (US Code), including Notes, Amendments, and Table of Authorities [http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title52-section30125&num=0&edition=prelim](http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title52-section30125&num=0&edition=prelim) For penalties, see under section (d) here (short answer: fines of $50k or a multiple of the amount at issue, and/or from one to five years in prison): [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30109-](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30109-) ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/3 "2016-08-16T17:50:37Z")
Thanks! If someone were to go to prison over this, who would it be? I’m thinking it would be the top person responsible for the solicitations, but might it be Manafort? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/4 "2016-08-16T19:31:34Z")
So who added these people to the mailing list? Some Democrats, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/5 "2016-08-16T19:40:03Z")
And how do we know that the solicitations were really sent out by the Trump campaign? It’s trivial to spoof a source email address. It’s probably better to blame incompetence than malice or malpractice here. Chances are that someone has simply forgotten to remove non-US email addresses from the list. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/6 "2016-08-16T19:42:08Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > …If someone were to go to prison over this, who would it be? I’m thinking it would be the top person responsible for the solicitations, but might it be Manafort? Whoever could be proved by evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to have authorized or sent the emails. But I wouldn’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/7 "2016-08-16T19:46:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So who added these people to the mailing list? Some Democrats, perhaps? If Trump was caught stabbing babies, would you be looking for the hidden Democrats that were shoving the poor innocent babes at his knives? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/8 "2016-08-16T20:31:49Z")
Deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/9 "2016-08-16T20:41:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If Trump was caught stabbing babies, would you be looking for the hidden Democrats that were shoving the poor innocent babes at his knives? Rein that in, Czarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/10 "2016-08-16T20:55:54Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Rein that in, Czarcasm. Righti-o! Let me put it another way, **Quartz** -Given that this is an ongoing problem(people from different countries receiving solicitations from Trump’s campaign), why has there been no effort over the months this has been going on to purge the lists? This isn’t a matter of “forgetting”-this is a matter of deliberate ignoring, because there has been _plenty_ of time to fix that list. As far as your insinuation that Democrats had anything to do with this? If there was the slightest hint that Trump could have blamed this on his opponents he would have jumped at the chance, so this shot in the dark falls into the category of “sad”, afaic. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/11 "2016-08-16T21:14:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And how do we know that the solicitations were really sent out by the Trump campaign? It’s trivial to spoof a source email address. > > It’s probably better to blame incompetence than malice or malpractice here. Chances are that someone has simply forgotten to remove non-US email addresses from the list. I’d rephrase that to call it _convenient incompetence_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/12 "2016-08-16T21:17:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I’d rephrase that to call it _convenient incompetence_. _Persistent_ convenient incompetence, since they were told about this problem with illegal solicitations back in mid-June and have done nothing to stop it…and everything to further it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/13 "2016-08-16T21:30:34Z")
And your point is? There’s little so limitless as human stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/14 "2016-08-16T21:37:59Z")
The point is that if they’re benefiting from it there’s no motivation to resolve it. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/15 "2016-08-16T22:01:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And how do we know that the solicitations were really sent out by the Trump campaign? It’s trivial to spoof a source email address. > > It’s probably better to blame incompetence than malice or malpractice here. Chances are that someone has simply forgotten to remove non-US email addresses from the list. According to the article, Trump’s campaign is not suggesting that the source email address was spoofed: > [@](#): > > Asked to explain why foreign donations were still being solicited despite numerous warnings, the Trump official blamed “scammers.” > > “We routinely check for foreign nationals,” the official told The Hill on Monday. “However, we’ve seen sometimes that scammers will continue to try to add them to our system.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/16 "2016-08-16T22:09:11Z")
If “Oh, someone scammed us” is considered an acceptable complete response to breaking the foreign solicitations rule, and there’s no penalty for consistently breaking the rule, then there’s no point in having a rule in the first place ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/17 "2016-08-16T22:10:25Z")
FECA says it’s illegal to “knowingly” solicit donations from foreign nationals. The term knowingly is exceedingly broad but has historically never applied to mass mailing campaigns. If you go to actually donate on any politician’s website, there’s a message saying you’re not allowed to if you’re a foreign national and that’s traditionally been enough to be in compliance with FECA laws. As a foreign national, I was receiving campaign solicitations from Obama in 2008 and I just received one from Hillary in 2016. I received them because I went to their website and signed up to get their campaign news and political campaigns mix news and fundraising solicitations. I’m not sure how the Trump campaign does it but the Hillary campaign doesn’t use double-opt-in like most commercial mailers do. This means anyone can sign up anyone else to get Hillary campaign solicitations. Most likely what happened is a bunch of pranksters decided to sign up some European politicians to get Trump spam. It’s not the responsibility of the Trump campaign to monitor or prevent this. If the politicians want to stop it, just click the unsubscribe button and they’ll never get a message again. For all of Trump’s scandals, this seems eminently like a non-scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/18 "2016-08-16T22:36:18Z")
If someone signs up a [gmail.com](http://gmail.com) address there’s no reasonable way the campaign could know if that account belonged to a foreign national. However Terri Butler’s (the MP in the article linked in the OP) address ends in @aph.gov.au. It wouldn’t be too difficult automatically filter such addresses out. I don’t think the campaign is required to do this, but they should probably consider doing for the sake of optics. It’s really about vetting. Why is the Trump campaign doing such a poor job of vetting foreigners? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/19 "2016-08-16T23:05:41Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It’s really about vetting. Why is the Trump campaign doing such a poor job of vetting foreigners? You would think some Extreme Vetting would be in order, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000/20 "2016-08-17T01:11:42Z")
Vicious, even. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-soliciting-foreign-contributions-whats-the-penalty/763000.md?page=2)