# Campaign to End Life Imprisonment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271 "2021-05-31T07:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/62 "2021-06-03T08:29:20Z")
Well… not entirely… People who can’t behave in prison probably won’t behave on the outside, either. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/63 "2021-06-03T12:11:02Z")
I see your point, UltraVires, that prison is a controlled environment. Wouldn’t that just be an argument for supervised release though? Let the offender out of prison, but keep a close eye on them for awhile to see if they can follow the rules on the outside. If they can’t do that, back to prison they go. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/64 "2021-06-03T12:40:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And now this movement seeks to release those mad dog killers. No, it doesn’t. If they are “mad dog killers” like you say, their sentence will just be extended every time it is up for review. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/65 "2021-06-03T12:44:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Right. And this anti-punishment creep just hardens the opposition. The Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty for those under 18 years of age with the assurance that life without parole would do the job. Then, less than a decade later, they said that life without parole for juveniles could only be given in homicide cases, and even then in a “rare” circumstance. Won’t somebody think of the children?! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/66 "2021-06-03T14:38:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And I agree with you in theory, but how do we get there? State controlled parenting? Prisons with one on one counseling? Segregating prisoners based on ability to rehabilitate? How do we judge that ability? How about instead of jumping to “state controlled parenting” we start by paying people a living wage, recognize affordable and available daycare and healthcare as essential parts of a functioning society? I’m not pretending my ideas so far will create a situation with zero recidivism. I’m not going to pretend I have any knowledge allowing me to judge the effects vs costs of one on one counseling or how to judge who it is possible to rehabilitate. I’m not arguing this as “theory”, I’m arguing it as “principle”. Whereas you seem to only want to come up with roadblocks in a “we’ve never tried this, but it can’t possibly work”-fashion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/67 "2021-06-04T01:46:18Z")
Really? You think that some parole board of born agains won’t be convinced when a convict gives them the “I wuz saved by Jeeezus!” speech? So, then why bother every 20 years anyway, what is the use? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/68 "2021-06-04T02:04:39Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > One of my chief arguments against the death penalty is that you can imprison a lethal criminal for life, thus protecting society from further harm. If they do away with the life sentence, I may have to reconsider my position on the death penalty. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that a still-lethal, unreformed, murderer should be allowed to roam about freely after having served a sentence - as if the authorities see him still being his Dahmer or Manson self but can only wring their hands helplessly, “Ah, there he goes, nothing we can do about it” as he walks out the door. Even a nation like Norway, which leads the world in humanitarian rehabilitation/prison quality, allows for additional time to be tacked on as need be. Whether a psychological panel can accurately assess a soon-to-be-freed-felon’s state of mind, of course, is another matter. But nobody is suggesting that a clear and evident menace to society should be released. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/69 "2021-06-04T22:01:13Z")
But that seems like a campaign not to “end” life imprisonment but to simply reserve it for the worst of the worst. And it diminishes the retribution or deterrent effect some of us have talked about. If I murder someone, take away everything they will have in this world, should I get out in 15 or 25 years just because I can convince a parole board that I won’t do it again? How is that fair to the person who did nothing wrong in the first place who will never do anything again solely because of my actions? I also don’t see how it is better to give someone a 21 year sentence and have the ability to “add” to that sentence, all the way up to life, rather than give someone a life sentence and have the ability to mitigate it. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/70 "2021-06-05T05:39:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Really? You think that some parole board of born agains won’t be convinced when a convict gives them the “I wuz saved by Jeeezus!” speech? Simple. The board members simply have the guy undergo a six-month supervised release program – in their spare bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/71 "2021-06-05T14:29:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But that seems like a campaign not to “end” life imprisonment but to simply reserve it for the worst of the worst. And it diminishes the retribution or deterrent effect some of us have talked about. If I murder someone, take away everything they will have in this world, should I get out in 15 or 25 years just because I can convince a parole board that I won’t do it again? How is that fair to the person who did nothing wrong in the first place who will never do anything again solely because of my actions? > > I also don’t see how it is better to give someone a 21 year sentence and have the ability to “add” to that sentence, all the way up to life, rather than give someone a life sentence and have the ability to mitigate it. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. It’s not exactly the same though. I believe with Norway, the presumption is that you will get let out after 21 years and the burden of proof is on the state to show that you are still dangerous. In the United States the burden of proof is on the convict to convince the parole board he is rehabilitated. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/72 "2021-06-07T16:52:28Z")
Alongside of this, with the current system, it is very likely that a lifer inmate could be genuinely reformed, and no threat to society any longer, yet still languish in prison for life simply because no authorities notice or care, nothing to get the ball rolling on his behalf. With the Norwegian system, the inmate is at least guaranteed a chance to be noticed by authorities, and prove his case for freedom. With the American system he may get no chance at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271/73 "2021-06-07T19:41:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Alongside of this, with the current system, it is very likely that a lifer inmate could be genuinely reformed, and no threat to society any longer, yet still languish in prison for life simply because no authorities notice or care, nothing to get the ball rolling on his behalf. That is why only really bad people should be given Life. The gang killer, the mass rapist, the mass killer, the guy who tortures and kills. Guys with long violent criminal records. The guy who comes home and find his wife sleeping with his buddy and shoots them both in a fit of rage? Who has no other record than traffic tickets? He can be reformed, his term should be less than Life. Maybe even only ten years, it all depends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/campaign-to-end-life-imprisonment/943271.md?page=3)