# Can a 20-gauge shotgun do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2001, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895 "2001-10-27T00:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SDP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDP)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/21 "2001-10-27T02:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > **Umm, I’m far from an expert on any kind of weapon (as in never shot anything but a .22), but what would be the difference between that and a rifle?** It can be theoretically cheaper to have two barrels, one rifled and one smoooth-bored, and use one for reasonably accurate slugs and one for normal “shotgun” shooting. Since the gun is originally designed to be used as a shotgun, even with a rifled barrel most people would still call it a shotgun. If you referred to it as a rifle it would be somewhat misleading, in my opinion. A semantic difference, really. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/22 "2001-10-27T02:44:49Z")
Doubtful, Have that shooter buy me a powerball ticket. See what manhatten said, and Doc Nickel and SDB You may be able to worry him a bit if you shot some 00 at him but at that range it would be lucky and prolly not lethal if you hit him. It would make them keep running. Or dig in. Just a WAG but a 00 ball from a 20ga at that distance is probably traveling at about 200 feet per second (like I said WAG). That may kill you if it hit you in the back of the head or eye. The spread is soooo large at that distance that you will not get hit by more than one ball. And you would have to shoot the shotgun like a mortor. Might as well use a bottle rocket. OTOH. A buddy of mine just got hit in the neck from a steel #4 shot while hunting. The “shooter” (read idiot) was about 100 meters away. His wife dug it out of his neck. Hunting is so much fun, or so he says. A running target from 1320 feet would be very hard to hit. Rifle, Shotgun, whatever. Three rangers with AR-15s, maybe. But it would be luck. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/23 "2001-10-27T02:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*So a rifled shotgun would give up the good qualities of a shotgun without fully attaining the quality of a rifle? \*\* Pretty close, save for the extra muzzle energy you’d get. Generally an unstisfactory solution. Me, I fire rifled _slugs_ through open-cylinder smoothbore, and use rifle-style open sights (special barrel). My slugs pattern 6" at 100 yards. You’ll never catch me shooting that combination any further. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/24 "2001-10-27T03:13:49Z")
and concentration of fire. say about 120 rounds or so. If the target didn’t hide behide a tree, rock, or small hill. WAG. Two clips per man for three men at 1320 feet distance shooting an AR-15. Working a moving target. You may have the chance of “A” hit. It’s a real big world out there. It’s a great gun but it isn’t magic. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/25 "2001-10-27T03:39:18Z")
The original post didn’t say anything about the person running. On a stationary chest size target, I can pretty well guarantee a 8 out of 10 (typically 10 out 10) hit rate at 500 yrds with an AR-15 and stock sites. I did this every year for 8 years. The USMC rifle range long yardage is 500 yrds or meters depending on location (I was always on yard ranges). Of course we used the M-16, but other than having 3 round burst mode, it is pretty much identical to an AR-15. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/26 "2001-10-27T04:29:09Z")
Scotth, You are right, we don’t know if this is an offensive or defensive posture. I never intended to deride anyones ability, the .223 is one of the most accurate rounds available. And the U.S Armed forces are shooting it. I have seen what it does and I have shot the AR-15. Light and acurate the .223 or 5.56 is a great round. The only way I could hit anything at 500 yards is if I got in my car and drove up to it. I was addressing the OP by saying the shotgun would not work. The OP needed 1320 feet. A couple of AR-15s might do it. Or better a 7mm. We don’t know who is on the other end of this weapon at this point. Hmmm, honey is that you??? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/27 "2001-10-27T05:40:49Z")
At least twice with a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. So surely one can do it with a 20 guage. Has anyone here ever shot one? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/28 "2001-10-27T05:56:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*At least twice with a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. So surely one can do it with a 20 guage. > > Has anyone here ever shot one? \*\* Please troll somewhere else. Or find a bridge to sit under. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/29 "2001-10-27T06:02:20Z")
I take it you have never shot one. I have. One of the worst rifles ever made. And please don’t mistake a comment on a post as a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/30 "2001-10-27T06:05:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by enipla \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > > \*\*At least twice with a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. So surely one can do it with a 20 guage. > > > > Has anyone here ever shot one? \*\* > > Please troll somewhere else. > Or find a bridge to sit under. \*\* Am I in the wrong, or is that a little harsh? I mean, was Oswald a marksman or just a madman with a gun? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/31 "2001-10-27T06:29:43Z")
Sorry, it was harsh but your post seemed to suggest that Kennedy was shot by a shotgun. Ummm. What? Thats why I said Troll. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/32 "2001-10-27T06:45:37Z")
The tool to use here would definitely be the [20-gauge sniper shotgun](http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0600/622.htm)! I’ve always thought this was a neat idea although I don’t really see the point. The claim on this is an accuracy of only 130 yards, which isn’t quite the quarter-mile range we need for this particular hypothetical situation. Also, I think this weapon is only available as a custom job, probably because folks who buy weapons for snipers stick to rifles (hooda thunk it?) So, basically, if you really want to extend the power of a medium-bore shotgun, Troy Estep is there to help. If you want to go shooting things at a quarter of a mile, a shotgun is probably a bad choice (although I can think of worse) even in this day of sabot slugs, fully rifled barrels, and cantilever scope mounts. (Of course, if you are in a mystery novel I suppose you can shoot accurately at a quarter of a mile with anything you want, as long as you’re buddies with the author.) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/33 "2001-10-27T06:58:32Z")
Ummm, And in response Reeder, Sorry, I got a bit uppity. Yep, I have shot lots of shotguns. I used to love to shoot clay pigeons. I eat meat but I have never shot down a real live bird. Hunting just isn’t me. Re the 20 gauge - killed just as many clay pigeons as my 12 gauge. Love My 20 but I usually take the 12 instead. The 12 gauge is an auto loader and doesn’t kick much more than the 20. The 20 is much lighter. But I weigh in at 200lbs so it doesn’t really matter that much. But, the 20 gauge is certainly a great gun. Again my apologies about the troll thing I misundersood. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/34 "2001-10-27T07:10:28Z")
I think reeder was making a joke, comparing the accuracy of the Carcano. I read an interview with Carlos Hathcock where he said he probably couldnt have made that shot with that rifle under those conditions, and he was possibly the greatest sniper who ever lived. Something to think about. Do a search on the name and you see what I mean. He holds the wolrd record for the longest confirmed kill. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/35 "2001-10-27T07:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead \* > \*\*I mean, was Oswald a marksman or just a madman with a gun? \*\* IIRC, he was a U.S. Marine. ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/36 "2001-10-27T12:12:34Z")
Hathcock sniper or he was nasty and capped the kid while he was running away (a la Tony Martin the farmer) and the kid ran away and died from blood loss ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/37 "2001-10-27T17:16:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by geepee \* > \*\*Hathcock sniper or he was nasty and capped the kid while he was running away (a la Tony Martin the farmer) and the kid ran away and died from blood loss \*\* Um,what? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/38 "2001-10-27T18:32:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Hathcock sniper or he was nasty and capped the kid while he was running away (a la Tony Martin the farmer) and the kid ran away and died from blood loss \*\* I’ll assume you’re referring to the 2500-yard shot he made from hill 55? The one where he put the _first_ round through the frame of the bicycle loaded with rifles, so he wouldn’t _have_ to shoot the kid? The one where the kid then grabbed a rifle and started firing about randomly? The second shot was a clean kill, and was made after the kid (roughly 16 yo) was given a chance to bug out. He chose to stay put and fight back, and that was it. As for the Mannlicher-Carcanno, at least one other marksman has duplicated the Kennedy shooting, but I’m going to have to dig into my library to find the reference. IIRC, he was a ballistician hired by the FBI to investigate whether or not the shot was even physically possible. He demonstrated that it was do-able, but only by a remarkably skilled, or remarkably lucky person. Back to the OP: Shotgun slugs at 400 yards, I’ll guess that if someone was _truely_ familiar with their weapon, and was _really_ lucky, and the target was standing still, on a windless day, they might score two hits as described by the author in under 50 shots. I can’t imagine how that would translate into a plausable scenario. ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/39 "2001-10-27T20:13:12Z")
Tony martin a UK farmer who was a victim of crime , heard burglars in his home so he went down stairs and unloaded 6 shots into the burglars and killed the kid as he was running away and crippled the other guy , dumb bastards deserved it , but Tony Martin was convicted of murder even though i consider that to be self defense ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895/40 "2001-10-27T20:15:10Z")
well he could have had a full auto shotgun with slugs when you have that you going to hit something [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-20-gauge-shotgun-do-this/89895.md?page=3)