# Can a "Bouncing Betty " be defused? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [September 25, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669 "2023-09-25T10:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/21 "2023-10-01T11:20:37Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Did that happen on “Vegas,” too? I know it happened on “Miami,” because the unlucky soul was Rex Linn, the bald detective, who in real life has been the SO of Reba McIntire. The one I mentioned _was_ CSI Las Vegas. I have no clue about CSI Miami. I’ve seen only a small fraction of those episodes, but I haven’t seen one like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/22 "2023-10-01T11:59:47Z")
> [@Chickenwrangler](#): > > Wonder if there has ever been a situation where someone is on a mine or bomb that cannot be defused, would he just be left by himself with the bomb till it exploded. Nope. Once you’ve found and activated a mine, there _is no pause_. The soldier wouldn’t be left by himself, he’d be _left in pieces._ > [@Chickenwrangler](#): > > There was a scene in The Hurt Locker where an local Arab had a bomb strapped to his chest that there wasn’t time to defuse, he was abandoned. > > Hollywood again ? This is one of the few scenes in movies that legitimately gives me pause . . . and nightmares. I have heard anecdotally (from trusted sources) that this scene was pretty close to real world events on one or two calls, but it does have legs in the case of [Brian Wells.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Wells) The SOP would be to isolate the ‘victim’ away from crowds/property, and try to work an RSP. I recall that in both the movie and Wells’ case, there just wasn’t enough time, and the bomb detonated. There’s a fine line between “abanodoned” and “positioned,” but this line does not exist in the mind of the hapless, terrified victim. Tripler You have do do some acrobatics to get radiography on a human-borne IED. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/23 "2023-10-01T12:55:17Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > > [@Chickenwrangler](#): > > > > Wonder if there has ever been a situation where someone is on a mine or bomb that cannot be defused, would he just be left by himself with the bomb till it exploded. > > Nope. Once you’ve found and activated a mine, there _is no pause_. The soldier wouldn’t be left by himself, he’d be _left in pieces._ There was this guy: > **[John Carmichael (VC)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmichael_(VC))** > > Sergeant John Carmichael VC MM (1 April 1893 – 20 December 1977) was a British Army soldier and a Scottish recipient of the Victoria Cross (VC), the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces. Carmichael was 24 years old, and a sergeant in the 9th Battalion, The North Staffordshire Regiment (The Prince of Wales's), during the First World War when he shielded others from a grenade which he saw had been initiated... > [@](#): > > On 8 September 1917, when excavating a trench near Hill 60, Zwarteleen, Belgium, Sergeant Carmichael saw that a grenade had been unearthed and had started to burn. Rather than simply throwing the bomb out of the trench and endangering the lives of the men working on top, he immediately rushed to the spot shouting for his men to get clear, put his steel helmet over the grenade and then stood on the helmet. The grenade exploded, blowing him out of the trench causing him serious injuries, but no one else was hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/24 "2023-10-01T13:00:19Z")
Grenades _purposefully_ have delays built into the firing train. You need time for “flight” between letting the spoon fly, lobbing it out, and detonation on your target. Tripler Instantaneously-detonating grenades aren’t really . . . “marketable.” ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/25 "2023-10-01T13:15:50Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Instantaneously-detonating grenades aren’t really . . . “marketable.” David R. Palmer included this in his novel _Emergence_ as a joke produced by a German soldier during WWII, and the entire story of its provenance is probably fictional, but I would love to learn otherwise: > TO: All Noncommissioned Officers and Below. > FROM: Blitzkrieg High Command Quality Control > Center. > SUBJECT: Hand-Grenade Repair Bulletin Follow- > up. > MESSAGE: In a previous bulletin, ZVP—111000WUB— > 827—D, it was reported that certain hand grenades > manufactured by subcontracter Sturm & Drang be- > tween 3 June 1943 and 8 October 1943, bearing > Serial Numbers 87A000—112498BZQ148 through > 87A000—112498BZS157 in one-millimeter-high char- > acters on the inside of the release lever, have deto- > nated in 4.91465 seconds instead of the specified > 4.97771 seconds. This variation exceeded manufac- > turing tolerances. > Bulletin ZVP—111000WUB—827—D described how > to correct this defect. However, it has been learned > that this bulletin contains a typographical error. If > Step 3 is followed as written, hand grenades so > modified will detonate in .07331 seconds and could > pose a hazard to the user. > All copies of bulletin ZVP—111000WUB—827—D > must be corrected as follows: In Step 3, the word > “left” in the third line should be deleted and the > word “right” inserted. If the corrected instructions > are followed properly, the hand grenades will per- > form satisfactorily. > However, if any hand grenades are observed to > detonate in .07331 seconds, even after being correctly > modified, safety pins and release levers of such hand > grenades must be returned to Blitzkreig Warranty > Center. Upon receipt of safety pins and release > levers, together with Quality Control Follow-up Re- > port Forms filled out correctly, credit will be issued. > Credit will not be issued if forms are filled out > incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/26 "2023-10-01T14:23:35Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Instantaneously-detonating grenades aren’t really . . . “marketable.” Leastwise not more than once. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/27 "2023-10-01T14:51:21Z")
Let me weigh in here. The US M16 mine (and M605 fuze) are near carbon copies of the German Bouncing Betty. When you hear the click (maybe the battlefield is quiet?) **events are in motion**. From Wiki and the mine tech manual: The freed striker is forced into a [percussion cap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap) which ignites a short [pyrotechnic delay](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pyrotechnic_delay&action=edit&redlink=1). The purpose of this delay is to allow the victim to move off the top of the mine, to prevent its upward movement from being blocked. Once the delay has burned through, a 4.5-gram [black powder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_powder) charge is ignited, which launches the inner iron body of the mine up into the air (leaving behind the steel outer sleeve). The charge also ignites a second pair of pyrotechnic delays. The mine rises to a height of 0.3 to 1.7 meters[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_mine#cite_note-1) before one or both of the pyrotechnic delays [detonates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonate) the main charge of the mine, which sprays high-speed metal fragments 360° around the point of detonation." There are multiple delays but it does you no good to stand there or run. It’s over quick. **Fascinating safety change almost written in blood.** These M16 mine lots get function tested periodically. The delay elements, igniters, expelling charges are all pyrotechnics and as such are hydroscopic (suck in humidity and go pbbbbttt). The mines are set up for initiation with the pull initiator from a bunker 50+ meters or so away. The sequence, timing, and burst height are video monitored using a mirror (kick ass mine, lots of mirrors get wiped out) In the event of a dud, SOP was to wait 30 minutes before investigating the mine. That’s enough time for a few hands of pinochle, spades, or hearts. One time, the game was going hot a heavy and the crew was just stepping out of the bunker at 45 minutes when the mine functioned. The time to investigate was lengthened to one hour. ---
**Author:** ![Chickenwrangler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chickenwrangler/32/91_2.png) [@Chickenwrangler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chickenwrangler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/28 "2023-10-01T14:52:03Z")
Sorry wrong post ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chickenwrangler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chickenwrangler/32/91_2.png) [@Chickenwrangler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chickenwrangler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/29 "2023-10-01T14:56:37Z")
Sorry wrong post again, Can’t get the hang of this editing ☹ ☹ ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/30 "2023-10-01T17:41:22Z")
I thought the ‘Bouncing Betty’ armed when you stepped on it, and fired when you stepped off. Appears there are different ones. Some just have a delay fuse that will detonate regardless if you step off or not. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/31 "2023-10-01T17:57:38Z")
Nope, pretty much same design and function of all the bouncers. The term, “armed” may be messing up the understanding. The mine is “armed” when the safety pin/pins are removed. When stepped on or a pull wire is tripped, the mine is going to explode after a short delay. If the soldier/cow moves off the mine, it will pop up in the air and detonate. If one remains standing on the mine, one pound (~) of explosives detonating is going to elevate the stepper. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/32 "2023-10-02T17:14:54Z")
What about marketing them to forces that are retreating from an area and expect the enemy to take control of it for the foreseeable future? Leave a few crates of them behind you when you go. E.g. Project Eldest Son ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669/33 "2023-10-02T17:35:05Z")
re Eldest Son. Same program was used in Iraq during the occupation by US forces. Mostly 82mm mortar rounds favored by insurgents. Also, May I present the Pursuit Deterrent Munition. Also a bounder type. Engineering for a darker future. > **[M86 Pursuit Deterrent Munition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M86_Pursuit_Deterrent_Munition)** > > The M86 Pursuit Deterrent Munition (PDM) is a small United States anti-personnel mine intended to be used by special forces to deter pursuing enemy forces. > The M86 anti-personnel mine is to be deployed as a deterrent munition by special forces or selected personnel only on operations where they may be pursued by an enemy. > The M86 mine is similar in configuration and possesses functioning characteristics of the ADAM mine presently loaded in the 155mm projectile, M731 (and M692). The mine is wedg... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-bouncing-betty-be-defused/990669.md?page=1)