# Can a charity sue you for donating to them with a bad check? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 6, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865 "2024-09-06T17:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/1 "2024-09-06T17:47:46Z")
Suppose a Girl Scout shows up at my door looking for donations and feeling in a generous mood I hand her a check for $2,956.03 no strings attached. Then later that night I go on a gambling spree in empty my bank account, so that when they try to cash the check it bounces. Can the Girl Scouts come after me for the amount of the check? It wasn’t exactly fraud because I didn’t receive anything of value that I didn’t pay for, but on the other hand I did write a bad check. Inspired by this [article](https://polinews.org/girl-scover-thousands-in-unpaid-funds/) here which doesn’t specify why he wrote them the check, and left me wondering if it could just be a donation, although if it was its an oddly specific amount. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/2 "2024-09-06T18:08:27Z")
Most states, to my knowledge, have remedies in their laws in favour of the payee of a bad check that are independent of remedies for the underlying transaction that the check was written for; see an example from a state code [here](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title8.01/chapter3/section8.01-27.2/). Where such remedies exist, they can go after you. Whether it would be good PR for their organization is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/3 "2024-09-06T18:49:36Z")
It doesnt really matter why you wrote the bad check, in many states simply writing one is a crime in of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/4 "2024-09-06T18:52:26Z")
A charity can sue…but they probably will consider the cost of the lawyers and the possible return from a party that already blew the funds elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/5 "2024-09-06T19:15:09Z")
Even if the charity chooses not to file a civil suit, they may choose to cooperate in a criminal case against you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/6 "2024-09-07T03:43:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > they may choose to cooperate in a criminal case against you. What’s the crime? The check wasn’t worthless. The account was emptied after it was written. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/7 "2024-09-07T03:44:44Z")
Perhaps I’m completely nuts but I thought passing a bad check was a criminal offense? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/8 "2024-09-07T03:45:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > but I thought passing a bad check was a criminal offense? See above - I edited my post while you were also posting. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/9 "2024-09-07T03:47:32Z")
What do you mean “the check wasn’t worthless”? If there aren’t funds in the account when the recipient deposits it, it’s a bad check. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/10 "2024-09-07T03:49:19Z")
It’s going to vary by statute, but here’s the relevant Florida law. > It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to draw, make, utter, issue, or deliver to another any check, draft, or other written order on any bank or depository, or to use a debit card, for the payment of money or its equivalent, **knowing at the time of the drawing, making, uttering, issuing, or delivering such check or draft, or at the time of using such debit card, that the maker or drawer thereof has not sufficient funds** on deposit in or credit with such bank or depository with which to pay the same on presentation The crime is committed when you write a bad check. Not when the check is deposited. The “knowingly” bit is also important. I think quite a lot of people have _unknowingly_ overdrafted their accounts in lean times. I certainly did when I was in school. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/11 "2024-09-07T03:54:04Z")
From the [website](https://www.sao2fl.org/Worthless-Checks) of the Office of the State Attorney, 2nd Judicial Circuit, Jack Campbell, State Attorney: > Under Florida law, any check returned from a bank stamped “NSF” (Non-Sufficient Funds), “Insufficient Funds,” “No Such Account,” “Account Not Found,” or “NSF Unless Otherwise Indicated” is a worthless check that may be subject to prosecution under Florida’s criminal statutes. Checks returned “Refer To Maker” or “Uncollected Funds” may require additional investigation before being charged criminally. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/12 "2024-09-07T03:57:39Z")
“May be subject to prosecution.” As in the state may decide to investigate to see **if** the law was broken when the check was issued. Look at the form from your cite. > **[sworncomplaintforcheck\_new.pdf](https://www.sao2fl.org/Portals/27/Documents/sworncomplaintforcheck_new.pdf?ver=-ZVGx6mEAOYDKH5muuo0MA%3d%3d)** > > 381.22 KB It references the statute that I did above. “The undersigned, under oath, states that the above named checkwriter did draw, make, utter, issue, or deliver a worthless check.” In the OP, did the person draw, make, utter, issue, or deliver a worthless check? The answer is no. The statute was not violated. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/13 "2024-09-07T04:02:03Z")
That form is to be filled out by the recipient. If you give me a check that’s returned by the bank stamped NSF, I’m going to fill it out. I don’t care that there was money there when you wrote out the check. I only care if I get paid. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/14 "2024-09-07T04:04:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If you give me a check that’s returned by the bank stamped NSF, I’m going to fill it out. Hey, swear whatever you want. It’s not going to change the law. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/15 "2024-09-07T04:11:59Z")
My reading of that law is that you still owe the money for the check that bounced, but it’s only a crime if you write a bad check on purpose, knowing it was bad when you wrote it. And while i don’t know the law in other states, i know that accidentally writing a bad check is common, and the usual remedy is to ask the writer to cough up the money, not to prosecute. I’ve been given a new check and been told, “don’t cash this until Tuesday”, and it cleared an Tuesday and i considered the matter done. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/16 "2024-09-07T23:35:31Z")
In the situation in the OP, where it’s a donation I don’t think the Girl Scouts would be able to sue for the “donation” ,at least not unless it was a large donation that they relied on to their detriment , but they possibly could sue for what they were out for their bank fees. But as far as the actual situation , my guess is that Ms. Hill was using a personal check to pay money a troop owed to the council - for cookies or camp or some other activity. It’s very common for small groups not to have a bank account and for someone to write a check on their personal account when a check is needed once or twice a year. ( They should, but they often don’t if it’s only a couple of checks a year). Which would also explain why the Girl Scouts sued - if it was for cookies , the council had to pay for the cookies. If it was for camp or another activity , the council probably didn’t cancel the scout’s registrations since presumably they would have paid. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/17 "2024-09-08T00:50:49Z")
Responding to the OP’s question about a civil action (not the criminal issue), a quick googling came up with a couple of states that provide for a civil action based on the bad check, not tied to the reason why the person gave the check. Here’s an article from FindLaw about Ohio’s law: > [@](#): > > Pursuant to Section 2307.61 of the Ohio Revised Code, a person can be sued in a civil court for writing a bad check. The Statute allows for damages which can be significantly higher than the amount of the original check… > > …The person to whom the check was given can sue in civil court. If the Plaintiff wins the case, they are entitled to damages in an amount three times the value of the check, in addition to collection, bank and reasonable attorney fees. The Statute requires the Plaintiff to send notice that the check was dishonored thirty (30) days prior to filing any lawsuit. If, after the thirty (30) days the check and bank charges are not paid, a complaint can be filed. [https://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/civil-damages-for-passing-bad-checks.html#:~:text=The%20person%20to%20whom%20the,bank%20and%20reasonable%20attorney%20fees](https://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/civil-damages-for-passing-bad-checks.html#:~:text=The%20person%20to%20whom%20the,bank%20and%20reasonable%20attorney%20fees). And from the Office of the Attirney General of California: > [@](#): > > You may also sue someone who writes you a bad check without having a valid reason for doing so. You may also recover damages equaling three times the amount of the check, up to a maximum of $1,500, if you meet certain conditions: > [procedural steps omitted] > **[Bad Checks](https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/bad-checks)** > > A bad check is a check that you cannot cash because the person who wrote the check: (1) doesn’t have enough money to cover it (“insufficient funds”), or (2) told the bank to “stop payment” on it without having a valid reason for doing so. Writing a... Both pages talk about when criminal charges may apply, which I’ve omitted since that’s not what the OP asked about. Both Ohio and California provide for civil damages three times the amount of the check. That makes me suspect there may be a Uniform Commercial Code provision lurking in the background, with a recommended « three time damages » provision, but I don’t know where to look for that. As for why a civil action exists without regard to the reason for the check, raised in the OP, I assume it is to maintain the reliability and trustworthiness for checks. As always, IANAUSL. If you need legal advice about a bad check, talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/18 "2024-09-08T00:55:00Z")
Thanks everyone for the responses its been interesting reading. > [@doreen](#): > > But as far as the actual situation , my guess is that Ms. Hill was using a personal check to pay money a troop owed to the council That was my guess as well, again because of the oddly specific amounts involved. But just thinking about the other possibility made me wonder how it would turn out it it was just a donation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/19 "2024-09-08T00:59:35Z")
I agree that the recipient could not sue for a donation given via a bad check. As Judge Wapner taught me while watching The People’s Court, a contract requires an offer, acceptance and consideration. I don’t think there’s any consideration given by the recipient to the donor, so no contract would exist. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865/20 "2024-09-08T01:07:37Z")
Yes, on that point(separate from the cheque itself), the traditional common law position is that a gift / donation is not a contract. You can’t sue on a bare promise. (Civil law is different, historically, where the motive for promising a gift may be consideration.) Where it may get tricky is if the person/agency who is promised a donation takes steps to their financial detriment in reliance on the promise. If the wealthy university alum promises big $$$ to build a new gym, and the university buys the land, and then the alum backs out, that _might_ trigger liability. As always, I’m not a U.S. lawyer and I’m speaking in generalities. If you need legal advice, talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-charity-sue-you-for-donating-to-them-with-a-bad-check/1006865.md?page=2)