# Can a Christian be a Muslim too? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651 "2003-04-01T06:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/21 "2003-04-01T15:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TGWATY \* > \*\*Then what makes one a Christian? Belief in Jesus as God Incarnate is certainly a necessary ingredient. See for instance, C. S. Lewis’ _Mere Christianity_. > > Not everyone who believes _something_ about Jesus is a Christian. If the term Christian is used to cover all those who believe that the Gospels tell a spiritually significant story, whether or not they are factually inerrant and that Jesus was a person of great spiritual significance , then you have by definition extended it to include all Muslims. \*\* Not everyone who lives in Scotland is a Scotsman unless he wears a kilt and eats porrige (with salt on it) and has an enormous ginger beard… Who gets to define whether a person is a Christian or not? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/22 "2003-04-01T15:43:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cillasi \* > \*\*No, you cannot. Muslims (There is no God but Allah) do not recognize the Holy Trinity - God in 3 persons - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. > > This is the primary schism between Islam and Christianity and cannot be resolved. \*\* Careful with making the Trinity a basic Christian tenet. 16th century Unitarians[sup]1[/sup] would have argued strenously that they were Christians, in spite of having pitched the doctrine of the Trinity. 4th century Arianism also did not accept the trinity. Arianism was branded as heresy by the mainstream Christian church, but its practitioners still accepted Christ as devine, and worshipped him, making them “Christians” to my thinking. [sup]1[/sup] - Whether modern UU’s are collectively Christian or not is another complete discussion which tends to rest on whether you are referring to doctrine or cultural history (an individual UU member can certainly be a professed Christian). ---
**Author:** ![DrLizardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DrLizardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrLizardo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/23 "2003-04-01T15:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Who gets to define whether a person is a Christian or not? . Yeah, that’s the heart of the matter. Likewise for ‘Muslim.’ To me, as with any belief system, it seems obvious that YOU can be both if you choose to (a la Gandhi’s quote above, though I’d say that was more a metaphysical statement about brotherhood of man than a statement that he was truly an adherent of said belief systems). So, if you are able to satisfactorily resolve or accept any contradictions you perceive between the two, go for it, I say. The real question here is if OTHERS will accept that you are both. I think you have a VERY TOUGH road on that one, particularly if your definition of who defines what a Christian or Muslim is involves sanction by an organized, mainstream sect of both/either. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/24 "2003-04-01T15:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\*[sup]1[/sup] - Whether modern UU’s are collectively Christian or not is another complete discussion which tends to rest on whether you are referring to doctrine or cultural history (an individual UU member can certainly be a professed Christian). \*\* Being a UU atheist, I’m not sure where the discussion is on this point. Modern UUs are not collectively Christian. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/25 "2003-04-01T16:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grimpixie \* > \*\*Here is an [islamic site’s page](http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm) that quotes it as follows:[A Brief Guide to Understanding Islam](http://www.islam-guide.com/) \*\* This line is a bit more to the point (yours deals more specifically with Jews than Christians): > [@](#): > > [4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; **the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah** and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and **say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son,** whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/26 "2003-04-01T16:37:33Z")
Perhaps I worded that badly - the UU Association can still be construed as a “Christian” church in some regard, particularly if one is considering cultural/historical features rather than stated doctrine. From the UUA’s FAQ: > [@](#): > > Are Unitarian Universalists Christian? > > Yes and no. > > Yes, some Unitarian Universalists are Christian. Personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as the christ richly informs their religious lives. > > No, Unitarian Universalists are not Christian, if by Christian you mean those who think that acceptance of any creedal belief whatsoever is necessary for salvation. Unitarian Universalist Christians are considered heretics by those orthodox Christians who claim none but Christians are “saved.” (Fortunately, not all the orthodox make that claim.) > > Yes, Unitarian Universalists are Christian in the sense that both Unitarian and Universalist history are part of Christian history. Our core principles and practices were first articulated and established by liberal Christians. > > Some Unitarian Universalists are not Christian. For though they may acknowledge the Christian history of our faith, Christian stories and symbols are no longer primary for them. They draw their personal faith from many sources: nature, intuition, other cultures, science, civil liberation movements, and so on. It serves to illustrate the point made elsewhere in this thread - defining what is / is not “Christian” leads you into very murky waters. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/27 "2003-04-01T17:21:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Who gets to define whether a person is a Christian or not? Thats the definition of Christian. The word might change in the future, but thats semantics. By definition, one cannot be Christian without believing in Jesus _Christ_. Its like saying you can be a Muslim without believing “that Mohammed Guy” was very important. Its the center of the faith. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/28 "2003-04-01T18:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Thats the definition of Christian. The word might change in the future, but thats semantics. By definition, one cannot be Christian without believing in Jesus Christ. What exactly do you mean by “believing in”, though? Unfortunately, even Webster’s definition is sufficiently vague enough to result in a crusade. > [@](#): > > 1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ That leaves a lot hanging (for starters, do we have to accept everything his apostles said, and things that Paul added later, or can we just stick to what words we believe came out of his own mouth? … however we determine THAT…) and is a far cry from what I think the more commonly accepted definition is in the West today, namely something like: “one who believes that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and died and was resurrected for the forgiveness of sins.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/29 "2003-04-01T18:59:28Z")
Somebody wiser than me once said that being a Christian is just like being homosexual; if somebody says they are one, then that about wraps it up, I am neither qualified or able to reject such a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/30 "2003-04-02T03:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Gandhi certainly thought you could. \*\* Ghandi was neither Christian nor Muslim. His alleged opinion on this matter is completely invalid. And in any case, his alleged statement was more a matter of political posturing than a cogent doctrinal confession. Christianity requires that one believe that Jesus Christ is God. Islam requires that one reject this doctrine. Thus, while they could be morally compatible, they are doctrinally contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Marko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@El\_Marko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Marko)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/31 "2003-04-02T04:50:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*…Christianity requires that one believe that Jesus Christ is God. Islam requires that one reject this doctrine. Thus, while they could be morally compatible, they are doctrinally contradictory. \*\* I can’t think of a better way of saying it, though I might also add that to be a christian one must subscribe to the teachings of Jesus, including John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me.” I would argue that this contradicts the statements made earlier in this thread that Unitarians (who are generally characterized as believing that there are **many** ways to God) can be considered christians. As for Mangetout’s questions resulting from my previous post: I admit it, I committed a carnal sin of the SDMB - I don’t have a cite for you. Sorry. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/32 "2003-04-02T04:52:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Thats the definition of Christian. The word might change in the future, but thats semantics. By definition, one cannot be Christian without believing in Jesus _Christ_. Its like saying you can be a Muslim without believing “that Mohammed Guy” was very important. Its the center of the faith. \*\* I hate to break it to you, but there is a group of _christian_ scholars (the Jesus Seminar) who get together every year or two to work on the very serious business of examining the New Testament to figure out what was likely said by Jesus and what was likely added by someone else. The result? only 18% of the New Testament can be directly attributed to something Jesus said. Some of these scholars have concluded that Jesus never said he was the son of God - at least not in the Bible. Many of these scholars consider themselves Christians, and some are/were ministers, Yet these scholars have claimed some of the following: “Jesus did not ask us to believe that his death was a blood sacrifice, that he was going to die for our sins.” “Jesus did not ask us to believe that he was the messiah. He certainly never suggested that he was the second person of the trinity. In fact, he rarely referred to himself at all.” “Jesus did not call upon people to repent, or fast, or observe the sabbath. He did not threaten with hell or promise heaven.” “Jesus did not ask us to believe that he would be raised from the dead.” “Jesus did not ask us to believe that he was born of a virgin.” “Jesus did not regard scripture as infallible or even inspired.” So says Robert W. Funk, Architect and Founder of the Jesus Seminar, in a Keynote Address to the Jesus Seminar Fellows in the spring of 1994.(1) The Jesus Seminar has been receiving extensive coverage lately in such periodicals as Time, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, as well as on network television. The above quotes are from a site critical of the Jesus Seminar [http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/jesussem.html](http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/jesussem.html) The Jesus seminar site itself: [http://religion.rutgers.edu/jseminar/](http://religion.rutgers.edu/jseminar/) * * * I just posted this to show, that there are all kinds of Christians with all kinds of interpretations of the Bible. Not all Christians believe everything literally. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/33 "2003-04-02T06:14:09Z")
The term “Christian” is an extremely equivocal one, given to a lot of definitions. Mormons identify themselves as Christians, although many of their tenets would qualify them as pagans who respect Christ in the view of many other Christians. Unitarians, as noted above, are divided as to whether they, personally, are Christians or not. To further complicate things, Unitarians I’ve known have disagreed as to whether their denomination as a whole was Christian or not. Some Eavangelical Christians (a lot of them, actually) use the term “Christian” exclusively to describe adherants to their narrow range of beliefs. I’ve read that as a result of this some mainstream Protestant theologians now find it problematic or even embarassing to describe themselves as “Christian” without qualifying their statement. I’ve known members of the Bahai International Faith who say they are Christians. By and large, I’d say you can’t be Christian and Muslim; the Quran contains a Book of Jesus and a Book of Mary, and these attempt to place Christ in perspective so that Islam is seen as superseding Christianity. Gandhi appears to have always been forthright about being a monotheistic Hindu. Mark Twain wrote about hearing the young Gandhi speak at an international conference on religion in which he explained the tenets of his faith. My knowledge of his “claim” to be Muslim and Christian is limited to the Richard Attenborough film. There Ben Kingsley is talking about discrimination when he says he is a Muslim and a Christian. He starts out by saying that some people tell him that when the laws for an independent India are drawn up, it will be okay to discriminate against the Muslims, and other people say it will be okay to discriminate against the Christians, and still others say it will be okay to discriminate against some other group. Gandhi argued that people who countenanced a “little” prejudice were on a slippery slope, as society will quickly become so divisive that no one is safe. In saying that he was a Muslim and a Chrisitian and a Jew, etc., he only meant that their concerns were his concerns, and that unfairness against them today would result in unfairness against him and his kind tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/34 "2003-04-02T08:05:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > **Christianity requires that one believe that Jesus Christ is God.** Certainly that is _one_ definition (it even happens to be the one I personally subscribe to), but it isn’t the _only_ definition, as others have said. Certainly I think you couldn’t be a _fundamentalist_ Christian and Muslim simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/35 "2003-04-02T12:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > The result? only 18% of the New Testament can be directly attributed to something Jesus said. Some of these scholars have concluded that Jesus never said he was the son of God - at least not in the Bible. Your point? Whether Jesus was God is anbother arguement entirely. It is of absolutely no moment here. The standard accepted definition of Christian is one who believes in the teachings of Jesus _Christ_. Otherwise the word has no meaning at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/36 "2003-04-02T12:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Your point? Whether Jesus was God is anbother arguement entirely. It is of absolutely no moment here. The standard accepted definition of Christian is one who believes in the teachings of Jesus _Christ_. Otherwise the word has no meaning at all. \*\* Sure, but we could argue back and forth all day about _what exactly is meant_ by ‘believes in’ (agree with, or act upon?) and ‘the teachings of Jesus’ (what, all of them? How literally? Even the bit about cutting off your hands?) and how reliably we are informed of the true teachings of Jesus etc… I’m afraid that much as it would be convenient for ‘Christian’ to be a cut-and-dried term, the fact is that it is rather a broad and varied definition upon which everybody would like to claim the monopoly, but nobody can. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651/37 "2003-04-02T15:01:59Z")
Jomo Mojo: > [@](#): > > That allows the existence of Messianic Jews who are sort of Jewish and sort of Christian at the same time. :rolleyes: The only thing that “allows” their existence is a widespread ignorance amongst non-religious Jews of the tenets of Judaism. If Christian missionaries wanted to start targeting Muslims, I have no doubt they can find ways to make Christianity sound compatible with Islam to folks who are muslim by birth and name and self-identity but aren’t devout enough to know the exact details of their faiths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-christian-be-a-muslim-too/165651.md?page=1)