# Can a city make firearm ownership MANDATORY? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 15, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998 "2007-03-15T04:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/1 "2007-03-15T04:26:17Z")
In the US can a city (town, village, etc) or even a state require every houshold to have a gun? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/2 "2007-03-15T04:30:33Z")
Of course not. They can try, but how do you enforce such a ridiculous dictum without violating the 4th Amendment at the very minimum while attempting to enforce the statute? I mean, they have to see the weapon to prove that you have it, and how do they do that if you don’t let them in the door? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/3 "2007-03-15T04:31:13Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] In the US can a city (town, village, etc) or even a state require every houshold to have a gun? [/QUOTE] They will name the town Polite, TX ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/4 "2007-03-15T04:33:15Z")
[Kennesaw, Georgia did](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia) in 1982. > [@](#): > > Kennesaw has the nickname of “Gun Town, USA” due to a city ordinance passed in 1982 [Sec 34-1a] that requires every head of household to maintain a firearm with ammunition. It was passed partly in response to a 1981 handgun ban in Morton Grove, Illinois. Kennesaw’s law was amended in 1983 to exempt those who conscientiously object to owning a firearm, convicted felons, those who cannot afford a firearm, and those with a mental or physical disability that would prevent them from owning a firearm. It mentions no penalty for its violation. According to the Kennesaw Historical Society, no one has ever been charged under the law. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/5 "2007-03-15T04:36:06Z")
I seem to recall something about a small town in Utah that required gunownership of its residence. I believe it was more to make a political point though, and doubt they ever tried enforcing it. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/6 "2007-03-15T04:40:36Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] [Kennesaw, Georgia did](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia) in 1982. [/QUOTE] So, a never enforced law with no known penalty and loopholes for anyone who could possibly not want one? Yeah, real fine law there. Geeze. I’m well aware that stupid political grandstanding is a tradition for every level of government, but can we at least pretend to respect the rule of law by leaving the most transparent ones to resolutions and speeches? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/7 "2007-03-15T04:42:58Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] So, a never enforced law with no known penalty and loopholes for anyone who could possibly not want one? Yeah, real fine law there. [/QUOTE] Hey, the OP didn’t ask for a _good_ law; just whether such a law as described in the OP could be passed. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/8 "2007-03-15T04:59:22Z")
It might be easier to start small–say, [Somerset, Vermont.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset,_Vermont) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/9 "2007-03-15T06:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course not. They can try, but how do you enforce such a ridiculous dictum without violating the 4th Amendment at the very minimum while attempting to enforce the statute? I mean, they have to see the weapon to prove that you have it, and how do they do that if you don’t let them in the door? That’s easy. Phrase the law so as to require every citizen to present evidence of gun ownership. If the citizen does not present evidence (presumably, showing the piece in question directly to the inspector), then that citizen faces whatever penalty the law sets. The inspector need never set foot inside the citizen’s house; the citizen could take the gun (or other evidence) to an office in city hall. In fact, this would be considerably easier to enforce than a gun ban (which have, of course, been enacted in many places), because it’s a lot harder to prove that you don’t have a gun. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/10 "2007-03-15T06:38:11Z")
Don’t need no stinkin law cause everbod round herebouts got more than a couple. We’uns is all polite too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/11 "2007-03-15T13:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] That’s easy. Phrase the law so as to require every citizen to present evidence of gun ownership. If the citizen does not present evidence (presumably, showing the piece in question directly to the inspector), then that citizen faces whatever penalty the law sets. The inspector need never set foot inside the citizen’s house; the citizen could take the gun (or other evidence) to an office in city hall. In fact, this would be considerably easier to enforce than a gun ban (which have, of course, been enacted in many places), because it’s a lot harder to prove that you don’t have a gun. [/QUOTE] Except now you’re getting into the “right to privacy” and self-incrimination issues. The idea of mandatory ownership of firearms could never withstand scrutiny, hence the myriad of exceptions in the law **Johnny L.A.** brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/12 "2007-03-15T16:35:42Z")
Leaving aside laws that are intended to make a political statement (like Kennesaw, Georgia’s) can any city or state make it manditory that anyone own _anything_? They can’t make you own a car, or a television, or even clothing. (Granted you couldn’t leave the house without clothing, but it’s theoretically possible if you have everything delivered.) Is there any law anywhere that required all citizens of some community to own a particular item? ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/13 "2007-03-15T23:29:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] …can any city or state make it manditory that anyone own _anything_? [/QUOTE] Insurance is mandatory for car registration. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/14 "2007-03-16T00:41:58Z")
A really interesting question is, could a state revive the abandoned practice of requiring universal militia enrollment of it’s eligible citizens? As stated in the thread about the DC gun ruling, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8348763&postcount=161](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8348763&postcount=161) there are some states with their own armed forces **other than** their respective National Guard units, although I don’t know if those are professional or volunteer. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/15 "2007-03-16T02:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] A really interesting question is, could a state revive the abandoned practice of requiring universal militia enrollment of it’s eligible citizens?.. [/QUOTE] Considering that the federal government already considers every able-bodied man between 17 and 45 a member of the US Militia I don’t see why a state couldn’t do the same. State’s have engaged in conscription in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/16 "2007-03-16T08:36:49Z")
I would imagine that if such a law was set in place, there would be some workaround for citizens who didn’t want to own a functional firearm; someone would manufacture some device that was technically a firearm, but no more dangerous than a popgun. - An example of this sort of thing happening: London taxi drivers were required by law to carry a bale of hay for their horse, but this law remained in place until 1976, by which time horse-drawn cabs had all long been replaced by motor vehicles. At times, very small bales of hay were manufactured to be kept in vehicles in order to remain within the letter of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/17 "2007-03-16T12:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I would imagine that if such a law was set in place, there would be some workaround for citizens who didn’t want to own a functional firearm; someone would manufacture some device that was technically a firearm, but no more dangerous than a popgun. - An example of this sort of thing happening: London taxi drivers were required by law to carry a bale of hay for their horse, but this law remained in place until 1976, by which time horse-drawn cabs had all long been replaced by motor vehicles. At times, very small bales of hay were manufactured to be kept in vehicles in order to remain within the letter of the law. [/QUOTE] Do you have a cite for this? I’ve heard it several times, but it always sounds a bit far-fetched! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/18 "2007-03-16T13:07:29Z")
Sure, it does look exactly like UL-fodder doesn’t it? It’s described [here](http://www.dumblaws.com/index.php?s=taxi+hay#) - NB: I’m not sure how reliable is the [dumblaws.com](http://dumblaws.com) site - I do know there are a lot of false ‘dumb law’ stories in circulation. As I understand it, the miniature hay bales were manufactured when there was a dispute between taxi firms and local councils(who grant the cab licences and regulate the operation of the taxi firms) - I believe the purpose was to prevent the councils exploiting an archaic unrepealed law as an excuse to maliciously interfere with business. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/19 "2007-03-16T13:35:05Z")
Strictly looking at the United States, in the 21st century, practically speaking, no. However there is a very long history of compulsory military readiness that applies to all fighting-able members of the population in many societies in the past. While there was not often a specific weapon requirement you were expected to have some sort of martial instrument (or item easily used as such) when you were actually called up for service. In the colonial era several colonies, most famously the ones in present-day New England had laws that more or less required each household/adult male be ready to perform militia service. Local laws often specifically stated a weapon-ownership requirement, some even going so far as to say if a person could not afford a weapon to comply with the law then they would be responsible for buying one on credit. ---
**Author:** ![MatthewGivens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@MatthewGivens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MatthewGivens)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998/20 "2007-03-16T15:42:36Z")
Under current law, of course. The power to regulate includes both the positive and the negative. If a city (such as Washington DC or New York) has the legal power and authority to ban the possession of handguns, then that implies they also have the legal power and authority to REQUIRE the possession of handguns. The power to regulate can go either way. I do understand that the Washington DC ban on handguns was overturned by a Federal Appeals Court (saying that the 2nd Amendment guarantees an individual to keep and bear arms), but we’ll have to wait for the Supremes final ruling on the city’s appeal to that decision. Now, as to my opinion of the issue, I believe that cities do not have the legal authority to do either. Ditto for states or the US Congress. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-city-make-firearm-ownership-mandatory/395998.md?page=2)