# Can a current prisoner become President of the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845 "2012-07-20T13:06:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/1 "2012-07-20T13:06:29Z")
[ul] [li]Can a incarserated felon get on the ballot in enough states to theoretically stand a chance of winning the presidency?[/li][li]If he does win, can he give himself a presidential pardon and get free, or does he have to rule from his prison cell?[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/2 "2012-07-20T13:37:37Z")
1. Sure. See [Lyndon Larouche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche#Imprisonment.2C_release_on_parole.2C_and_attempts_at_exoneration). 2. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/3 "2012-07-20T14:24:06Z")
Americans do not vote for president. They vote for a slate of electors who are committed to a certain presidential candidate. The interesting question is, what happens if one or more of the electors is in prison, and therefore restricted from traveling to Washington to take part in the Electoral College? As far as I know, there is no legal criteria for electors, not even that they be US citizens. [Frequently Asked Questions | National Archives](http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#qualifications) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/4 "2012-07-20T14:33:00Z")
Doesn’t the President-elect have to take the Oath of Office before he officially “gets his powers” so to speak? So one question could be whether or not the President-elect has free reign to choose the location of the oath (e.g. if the prez-elect is incarcerated, could he demand that he be administered the oath in his cell or in the prison excercise yard?) Also, I was under the impression that the President’s pardon powers were limited to Federal offenses (and possibly Territorial offenses e.g. crimes in DC or Puerto Rico) and that State offenses had to be pardoned via State law, usually by the Governor, because the States are sovereign regarding their own criminal law. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/5 "2012-07-20T14:46:39Z")
See [Eugene V. Debs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs). He was convicted of sedition and disenfranchised for life, but ran for president in the 1920 election from the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary and received 913,664 votes. Harding commuted his sentence to time served in 1921. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/6 "2012-07-20T15:18:54Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Also, I was under the impression that the President’s pardon powers were limited to Federal offenses (and possibly Territorial offenses e.g. crimes in DC or Puerto Rico) and that State offenses had to be pardoned via State law, usually by the Governor, because the States are sovereign regarding their own criminal law. You’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/7 "2012-07-20T16:03:44Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Doesn’t the President-elect have to take the Oath of Office before he officially “gets his powers” so to speak? So one question could be whether or not the President-elect has free reign to choose the location of the oath (e.g. if the prez-elect is incarcerated, could he demand that he be administered the oath in his cell or in the prison excercise yard?) It’s unclear whether the electee automatically becomes President or must take the oath first. Zachery Taylor refused to be sworn in on March 4, 1849, because that was a Sunday, but modern historians don’t believe that the country was without a President for that day. (And [David Rice Atchison](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rice_Atchison#.22President_for_One_Day.22) was certainly never Acting President.) Most accounts of the transition after Kennedy’s assassination consider Johnson the President the moment Kennedy died. He took an oath as quickly as possible because of the symbolic nature, but whether that had statutory power (if that’s the right legal term) is harder to determine. Similarly, when Roberts messed up the wording of the oath at Obama’s inauguration and they redid it later on, nobody has made any legal ruling whether the repeat was necessary. It’s also possible that without the oath the electee is President but has no powers, for whatever that might mean. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/8 "2012-07-20T18:00:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s also possible that without the oath the electee is President but has no powers, for whatever that might mean. Without the oath, I believe there could be an argument that the president couldnt veto bills, appoint judges, grant pardons, etc. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/9 "2012-07-20T18:16:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Without the oath, I believe there could be an argument that the president couldnt veto bills, appoint judges, grant pardons, etc. The oath is \*\*required \*\*by the Constitution ([Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_8:_Oath_or_affirmation)): > [@](#): > > Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” But there’s nothing that says you have to take the oath from the Chief Justice on the Capitol steps. LBJ took it on a plane from a district judge. Coolidge took it at home, with his father administering it. No reason a prisoner couldn’t take his oath of office in his cell. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/10 "2012-07-20T18:31:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Without the oath, I believe there could be an argument that the president couldnt veto bills, appoint judges, grant pardons, etc. Exactly. There is an argument. There is no case law whatsoever. So you can presume anything you want, but can’t back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/11 "2012-07-20T18:33:58Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Americans do not vote for president. They vote for a slate of electors who are committed to a certain presidential candidate. The interesting question is, what happens if one or more of the electors is in prison, and therefore restricted from traveling to Washington to take part in the Electoral College?[Frequently Asked Questions | National Archives](http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#qualifications) The Electoral college never meets as a single body. Each states electors meet in that states capital and then mail the ballots to DC. And most states have proceedures to cover absent electors (usually by having the present electors elect new members to fill vacancies). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/12 "2012-07-20T19:42:18Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > The oath is \*\*required \*\*by the Constitution ([Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_8:_Oath_or_affirmation)): > > But there’s nothing that says you have to take the oath from the Chief Justice on the Capitol steps. LBJ took it on a plane from a district judge. Coolidge took it at home, with his father administering it. No reason a prisoner couldn’t take his oath of office in his cell. Did I ever say that it had to be the Chief Justice? You don’t think I know that there have been Presidents sworn in by people other than Chief Justices? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/13 "2012-07-25T20:37:47Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Did I ever say that it had to be the Chief Justice? You don’t think I know that there have been Presidents sworn in by people other than Chief Justices? Didn’t mean to imply that it did. That part of my answer was actually in response to **robert columbia’s** query about whether the president-elect " has free reign to choose the location of the oath." ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/14 "2012-07-25T20:43:43Z")
And remember that at President Obama’s swearing in, John Roberts flubbed the oath. Mr. Obama re-took the oath properly in the oval office the following day “Just in case.” [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28780417/ns/politics-white\_house/t/obama-retakes-oath-office-after-flub/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28780417/ns/politics-white_house/t/obama-retakes-oath-office-after-flub/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/15 "2012-07-25T23:03:18Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Americans do not vote for president. They vote for a slate of electors who are committed to a certain presidential candidate. The interesting question is, what happens if one or more of the electors is in prison, and therefore restricted from traveling to Washington to take part in the Electoral College? As far as I know, there is no legal criteria for electors, not even that they be US citizens. [Frequently Asked Questions | National Archives](http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#qualifications) States mostly set their own qualifications for their electors. The Constitutional qualifications are listed in Article II and the 14th Amendment: > [@](#): > > Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but **no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector**. > [@](#): > > No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, **or elector of President and Vice President** , or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, **shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof**. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Most states have no additional qualifications beyond the ones specified in the Federal Constitution. Some require that electors be people who have pledged to support the appropriate candidate; for example, Florida: [QUOTE=§103.021, Fla. Stat.] Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/16 "2012-07-28T04:10:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Did I ever say that it had to be the Chief Justice? You don’t think I know that there have been Presidents sworn in by people other than Chief Justices? Well, it would make the idea that the prisoner couldn’t be sworn in seem silly, unless he’s in solitary confinement. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/17 "2012-07-28T13:24:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, it would make the idea that the prisoner couldn’t be sworn in seem silly, unless he’s in solitary confinement. Nobody said anything remotely like this statement. And the idea that being in solitary confinement means that he or she couldn’t take an oath because nobody could visit is somehow even sillier. A lot packed into one small sentence. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/18 "2012-07-28T20:34:26Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > But there’s nothing that says you have to take the oath from the Chief Justice on the Capitol steps. LBJ took it on a plane from a district judge. Coolidge took it at home, with his father administering it. No reason a prisoner couldn’t take his oath of office in his cell. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Did I ever say that it had to be the Chief Justice? You don’t think I know that there have been Presidents sworn in by people other than Chief Justices? > [@anson2995](#): > > Didn’t mean to imply that it did. That part of my answer was actually in response to **robert columbia’s** query about whether the president-elect " has free reign to choose the location of the oath." Well, Coolidge’s father was only a notary public, so he re-took it the next day: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] His father, a notary public, administered the oath of office in the family’s parlor by the light of a kerosene lamp at 2:47 am on August 3, 1923; Coolidge then went back to bed. He returned to Washington the next day, and was re-sworn in by Justice Adolph A. Hoehling, Jr. of the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia, as there was some confusion over whether a state notary public had the authority to administer the presidential oath. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/19 "2012-07-28T22:01:03Z")
Is it clear that anyone has to administer the oath? Could the president just say it in front of a bunch of people on his own initiative? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/20 "2012-07-29T02:17:17Z")
Nothing about it is clear. Nothing about it has ever reached a court. Everything is assumption or presumption. You can dream up variants and hypotheticals all night but the answer to every one is nobody knows for sure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845.md?page=2)