# Can a current prisoner become President of the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845 "2012-07-20T13:06:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/21 "2012-07-30T13:28:32Z")
As another aspect, if the president is imprisoned somewhere, that _could_ be basis for determining that he is unable to fulfill the duties of the office (apologies for not looking up the exact Constitutional wording), and passing powers on to the Vice President. Could is the operative word, because it’s the VP and cabinet that needs to make the initial determination (which is then approved by Congress). Certainly possible if, for instance, the President is imprisoned after the start of his term (let’s assume by a foreign power; otherwise simple impeachment is more likely). Less likely if he’s elected from a prison cell, as presumably the new VP and cabinet would be supporters of the new President, and so unlikely to try and remove him. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/22 "2012-07-30T15:47:16Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > As another aspect, if the president is imprisoned somewhere, that _could_ be basis for determining that he is unable to fulfill the duties of the office (apologies for not looking up the exact Constitutional wording), and passing powers on to the Vice President. If the president disagrees with this action, the Congress has 21 days to vote on the matter, and a 2/3 majority is required by both houses. What’s fascinating to me is how often we’ve had a Presidents who was clearly incapacitated with no transfer of power, even temporary. Washington, Madison, and Monroe were each deathly ill for periods of weeks. Garfield spent three months under sedation between the time he was shot and when he died. Chester Arthur had life-threatening kidney disease (and no VP in office). Wilson was paralyzed and blind after his stroke. FDR, Eisenhower, and LBJ each had health issues that put them out of commission for extended periods of time. And yet the only formal invocations of the 25th amendment to temporarily transfer power has been when GWB had colonoscopies. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/23 "2012-07-30T16:02:04Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is it clear that anyone has to administer the oath? Could the president just say it in front of a bunch of people on his own initiative? I’m assuming you could just Tweet it at this point. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/24 "2012-07-30T16:02:18Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is it clear that anyone has to administer the oath? Could the president just say it in front of a bunch of people on his own initiative? I was under the impression that an oath _had_ to be administered by someone having authority to administer oaths for it to be considered valid. Think about this - could you validly enlist in the US Army by having your 7 year old niece adminster the enlistment oath to you? I don’t think that would legally make you a soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/25 "2012-07-30T16:58:06Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > What’s fascinating to me is how often we’ve had a Presidents who was clearly incapacitated with no transfer of power, even temporary. Washington, Madison, and Monroe were each deathly ill for periods of weeks. Garfield spent three months under sedation between the time he was shot and when he died. Chester Arthur had life-threatening kidney disease (and no VP in office). Wilson was paralyzed and blind after his stroke. FDR, Eisenhower, and LBJ each had health issues that put them out of commission for extended periods of time. > > And yet the only formal invocations of the 25th amendment to temporarily transfer power has been when GWB had colonoscopies. Well, I can think of at least one extremely good reason why the 25th amendment wasn’t invoked for Washington, Madison, Monroe, Garfield, Arthur, Wilson, FDR, or Eisenhower… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/26 "2012-07-30T17:02:20Z")
Federal oaths of office are governed by 5 U.S.C.A. § 2903: > [@](#): > > (c) An oath authorized or required under the laws of the United States may be administered by–(1) the Vice President; or (2) an individual authorized by local law to administer oaths in the State, District, or territory or possession of the United States where the oath is administered. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/27 "2012-07-30T17:06:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Federal oaths of office are governed by 5 U.S.C.A. § 2903: > [@](#): > > (c) An oath authorized or required under the laws of the United States may be administered by–(1) the Vice President; So it seems like LBJ could have sworn himself in. Kind of fits his character. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/28 "2012-07-30T19:52:22Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Well, I can think of at least one extremely good reason why the 25th amendment wasn’t invoked for Washington, Madison, Monroe, Garfield, Arthur, Wilson, FDR, or Eisenhower… Fair enough, but there were multiple times before the amendment was passed where the issue came up, times when the President was undeniably incapacitated, often for weeks at a time. And yet despite the frequency with which this situation occurred, and 45 years after an amendment to deal with the issue was passed, it has been used twice, for a period of two hours each time, when it likely wasn’t vene necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/29 "2012-12-14T04:00:22Z")
There is nothing - other than political reality - to keep a prisoner from being elected President. This is all he (someday she) has to be: [President of the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_us#Eligibility) As noted above, if he’s a state prisoner, he cannot pardon himself, as the pardon power is only as to Federal offenses. If he’s a Federal prisoner, there is no legal consensus as to whether or not he can pardon himself. The question has never been litigated. My own view is that the Framers would be appalled at the thought of a President pardoning himself, but the Constitution does not explicitly forbid it, and the courts have generally held that the President may pardon whomever he pleases. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/30 "2012-12-14T05:04:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As noted above, if he’s a state prisoner, he cannot pardon himself, as the pardon power is only as to Federal offenses. If he’s a Federal prisoner, there is no legal consensus as to whether or not he can pardon himself. The question has never been litigated. My own view is that the Framers would be appalled at the thought of a President pardoning himself, but the Constitution does not explicitly forbid it, and the courts have generally held that the President may pardon whomever he pleases. I was unaware that the Presidential pardon was limited only to federal offences. That brings us to the question, can State Governors pardon themselves for in-state crimes. Is it different from state to state? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/31 "2012-12-14T07:32:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nobody said anything remotely like this statement. And the idea that being in solitary confinement means that he or she couldn’t take an oath because nobody could visit is somehow even sillier. > > A lot packed into one small sentence. It wasn’t silly. You just didn’t understand it. Saint Cad was accusing anson2995 of thinking that SC did not know that a Chief Justice was not required to give the oath. I explained that that was not **anson** ’s intent, which instead was merely to articulate a reason why neither place nor oathgiver mattered, thus answering the OP’s question. Then I pointed out the one flaw in his argument–that he hadn’t covered for what would happen if the prisoner was in solitary confinement. This post was made when I was getting tired of having to write multiple paragraphs to explain what I mean. I forgot that, when you do that, people often just assume you are being stupid rather than trying to figure out what you were saying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/32 "2012-12-14T14:05:42Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > …can State Governors pardon themselves for in-state crimes. Is it different from state to state? Yes, it varies. Some states have a panel or board involved in any pardon or commutation decision; others give the governor a pretty free hand: [Pardon - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#State_law) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/33 "2012-12-14T14:53:58Z")
OK, where’s the cite for Prez pardons being limited to federal offenses? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/34 "2012-12-14T15:05:36Z")
It’s right there in the Constitution: [QUOTE=Art. 2, §2] …he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States… [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/35 "2012-12-14T16:24:30Z")
Quite so. And see the second paragraph here: [Pardon After Completion of Sentence](http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/36 "2012-12-14T18:03:26Z")
More importantly, see the third paragraph. I’m not accustomed to being this far wrong in my understanding of what Federal processes do/do not accomplish. From here: [http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon\_instructions.htm](http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm) > [@](#): > > **3. Five-year waiting period required** > Under the Department’s rules governing petitions for executive clemency, 28 C.F.R. §§ 1.1 _et seq._, an applicant must satisfy a minimum waiting period of five years before he becomes eligible to apply for a presidential pardon of his federal conviction. **The waiting period** , which is designed to afford the petitioner a reasonable period of time in which to demonstrate an ability to lead a responsible, productive and law-abiding life,\*\* begins on the date of the petitioner’s release from confinement. \*\* > > Alternatively, if the conviction resulted in a sentence that did not include any form of confinement, including community or home confinement, the waiting period begins on the date of sentencing. In addition, the petitioner should have fully satisfied the penalty imposed, including all probation, parole, or supervised release before applying for clemency. Moreover, the waiting period begins upon release from confinement for your most recent conviction, whether or not this is the offense for which pardon is sought. You may make a written request for a waiver of this requirement. However, waiver of any portion of the waiting period is rarely granted and then only in the most exceptional circumstances. In order to request a waiver, you must complete the pardon application form and submit it with a cover letter explaining why you believe the waiting period should be waived in your case. All this time I thought a Presidential Pardon would get folks out of prison. But according to this, you can’t even ask for one until five years after you’ve completed your sentence. I hardly see the point of it at all anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/37 "2012-12-14T18:11:59Z")
That’s a bit misleading. In the federal context, executive clemency is separated into two forms: pardon and commutation. That rule applies to pardons, not commutations, which you can apply for while you’re still in choky or even before you begin serving a sentence. Most applications (and grants) are for commutation, but the media tends to refer to all forms of clemency as pardons. Also, that’s an administrative rule, rather than a law. Obama (or any POTUS) can do away with it more or less at will. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/38 "2012-12-14T18:14:20Z")
The President can always reach past the DOJ bureaucracy and grant pardons as he sees fit - not always wisely: [Bill Clinton pardon controversy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/39 "2012-12-14T18:59:35Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > More importantly, see the third paragraph. I’m not accustomed to being this far wrong in my understanding of what Federal processes do/do not accomplish. > > From here: [http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon\_instructions.htm](http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm) > > All this time I thought a Presidential Pardon would get folks out of prison. But according to this, you can’t even ask for one until five years after you’ve completed your sentence. I hardly see the point of it at all anymore. The president’s power to grant federal pardons and commutations is absolute. What you’re reading is the standard DOJ process to _apply_ for a federal pardon. The president is not required to follow this process and may grant _ad hoc_ pardons as he sees fit. Obviously, it helps to have a process in place since there are a lot of federal criminals who would like a pardon or commutation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845/40 "2012-12-14T19:39:38Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > OK, where’s the cite for Prez pardons being limited to federal offenses? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s right there in the Constitution: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Art. 2, §2 > > …he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States… This raises an interesting question. Some states rights advocates make the argument that the United States is not a single political entity - they argue the United States is a group of fifty sovereign entities. If you follow the line of reasoning, it changes the meaning of the phrase “Offenses against the United States”. It would mean an offense committed against any state not just an offense committed against the national government. So that interpretation would give the President the power to pardon people convicted of violating state laws. While I don’t agree with this interpretation, the reason I find it amusing is that you’ve got a situation where a strict states rights reading of the text of the Constitution gives the President greatly expanded powers over the states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-current-prisoner-become-president-of-the-usa/628845.md?page=3)