# Can a dead person be "accused" of something? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415 "2015-05-06T20:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/1 "2015-05-06T20:15:54Z")
So today’s news is that the Germanwings co-pilot “practiced” his crash maneuver on an earlier flight, several times setting the altitude heading to 100 feet and then back again to the regular flight level. He apparently set it so and left it on the return leg. Anyway, more than one news story says that Lubetube or Lubdub or whatever his name is “is accused of flying the airliner into the Alps.” Somehow that clangs on my language interpreter. Can a dead person be “accused” of something? So is Pontius Pilate “accused” of sending Jesus to his death? Or is Hitler “accused” of being nice to his dog? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/2 "2015-05-06T20:25:40Z")
He does lose the right to be faced by his accuser… ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/3 "2015-05-06T20:33:12Z")
Historically, people were occasionally convicted of suicide, so I think if one could be tried, one could be properly called accused. Here’s a case I found where [they tried a dead person in Russia](https://occrp.org/occrp/daily/1472-moscow-court-oks-posthumous-prosecution-of-dead-lawyer?lang=en-GB). In the case of the GermanWings pilot, I have no idea. But if it’s hypothetically possible he could be tried, then accused fits. Awkwardly. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/4 "2015-05-06T20:46:16Z")
It seems like perfectly normal usage to me. Google search defines accuse as the following: 1. charge (someone) with an offense or crime. 2. claim that (someone) has done something wrong. They can’t lay charges in court, but they can go on the record as saying that they believe that he did bad things x, y and z. I don’t think that Hitler could be accused of being nice to his dog because being nice to ones dog is generally considered to be a positive thing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/5 "2015-05-06T21:52:25Z")
It is typical cautious language. It has not been absolutely proven that he did it, though all the existing evidence points that way. Media are very careful not to call a person a criminal unless they have been duly convicted, up to that point they are the “suspected” or “accused” criminal. Libel can be brought by a person’s survivors if they feel harmed, and while the publication would probably not lose such a case, but it would probably waste them some gelt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/6 "2015-05-06T22:12:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Libel can be brought by a person’s survivors if they feel harmed, and while the publication would probably not lose such a case, but it would probably waste them some gelt. You can’t defame a dead person, as a general rule. The exception would be claims for defamation that occurred prior to the person’s death. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/7 "2015-05-06T22:55:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t defame a dead person, as a general rule. The exception would be claims for defamation that occurred prior to the person’s death. So, if someone said that he was now flying planes into mountains, that wouldn’t be a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/8 "2015-05-07T02:35:25Z")
Possibly under German law. But under the (substantial) majority rule in the US, and at common law, no. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/9 "2015-05-07T03:07:50Z")
Not sure if “accused” would be the right word, but can’t crimes be attributed to dead people? There’s no doubt that the 9/11 hijackers, dead as they are, hijacked the planes and committed murder-suicide, no? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/10 "2015-05-07T04:48:38Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Historically, people were occasionally convicted of suicide, so I think if one could be tried, one could be properly called accused. > > Here’s a case I found where [they tried a dead person in Russia](https://occrp.org/occrp/daily/1472-moscow-court-oks-posthumous-prosecution-of-dead-lawyer?lang=en-GB). > > In the case of the GermanWings pilot, I have no idea. But if it’s hypothetically possible he could be tried, then accused fits. Awkwardly. IIRC, back in the middle ages, one Pope did that with his predecessor – and actually had his corpse sit there during the trial. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/11 "2015-05-07T05:42:22Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Here’s a case I found where [they tried a dead person in Russia](https://occrp.org/occrp/daily/1472-moscow-court-oks-posthumous-prosecution-of-dead-lawyer?lang=en-GB). A court in Greece just [tried and sentenced a dead guy](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/greek-court-convicts-dead-man-of-theft-gives-him-six-month-suspended-jail-sentence-0). He’s got a six month suspended sentence. I guess if he re-offends again, they’ll put his zombified corpse in jail. As for the OP, I think I’d used “it has been claimed” or “it has been suggested” rather than “he’s been accused,” but I don’t think accused is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/12 "2015-05-07T06:23:10Z")
> [@AHarris](#): > > It seems like perfectly normal usage to me. > > Google search defines accuse as the following: > > 1. charge (someone) with an offense or crime. > 2. claim that (someone) has done something wrong. > > They can’t lay charges in court, but they can go on the record as saying that they believe that he did bad things x, y and z. Are you sure about the last? In some judicial systems, while for logistic reasons a person can’t be sent to jail while dead, it is possible to have other penalties for which other parties would be responsible - for example, the family or an organization to which the person belonged may have to pay fines, compensate for damages, etc. I don’t know whether the specific fora involved in this case would have that kind of situation or not. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/13 "2015-05-07T06:43:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > IIRC, back in the middle ages, one Pope did that with his predecessor – and actually had his corpse sit there during the trial. [In the 9th century, yeah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod). But it’s not like it was based on precedent or any real legal basis. And it has to be noted that it didn’t end well for the one who came up with that stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/14 "2015-05-07T07:57:41Z")
You can accuse a dead person of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/15 "2015-05-07T12:48:21Z")
Most stories use “suspected,” which seems to fit the situation better. “Accused” has an implication of being able to answer, I think, which is why it clanks here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/16 "2015-05-07T13:57:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Are you sure about the last? In some judicial systems, while for logistic reasons a person can’t be sent to jail while dead, it is possible to have other penalties for which other parties would be responsible - for example, the family or an organization to which the person belonged may have to pay fines, compensate for damages, etc. I don’t know whether the specific fora involved in this case would have that kind of situation or not. Civil penalties, sure. But you can’t levy criminal penalties against peoples’ families, and corporate culpability is a fiction where the corporation is on trial for the principal’s actions, not the principal himself. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/17 "2015-05-07T19:08:48Z")
But in the civil law system, there isn’t the strict division between civil and criminal matters as in the common law system. A private individual can apply to participate in a criminal case in some systems, and seek civil damages if the accused is found guilt. I think the first time I heard of that process was a trial in France - maybe a war crimes trial against a former Nazi soldier? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/18 "2015-05-08T01:01:46Z")
Well, there’s that cottage industry of suing Michael Jackson’s estate for stuff MJ did while alive… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/19 "2015-05-08T09:45:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t defame a dead person, as a general rule. The exception would be claims for defamation that occurred prior to the person’s death. Another exception is that if the statement is published which while on the face of it is defamatory to a dead person can be seen by reasonable people to refer to a still living person. LIke, “The late Father Brown was a boy buggers, all priests who have ever served in this Parish have been”. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-dead-person-be-accused-of-something/719415/20 "2015-05-08T14:34:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Another exception is that if the statement is published which while on the face of it is defamatory to a dead person can be seen by reasonable people to refer to a still living person. > > LIke, “The late Father Brown was a boy buggers, all priests who have ever served in this Parish have been”. But that’s two separate statements. I get what you mean, but I have trouble constructing an example that would stand - either it addresses and defames a living person, or it doesn’t, no matter how it’s connected to a deader.