# Can a felon--after having served his sentence or not--serve as President? Or even run for office? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688 "2016-01-20T17:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/21 "2016-01-20T20:11:30Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > If a federal official is impeached and convicted in a Senate trial, then the Senate has to decide upon a punishment. That can range from censure to removal from office. Cite? My understanding has always been that upon conviction in the Senate, the impeachee is immediately removed from office. Censure would be a completely separate, less onerous, and less constitutionally meaningful process. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/22 "2016-01-20T20:29:30Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Cite? My understanding has always been that upon conviction in the Senate, the impeachee is immediately removed from office. Censure would be a completely separate, less onerous, and less constitutionally meaningful process. The Constitution says on the subject of impeachment penalties: > [@](#): > > Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. This is generally held to mean that the Senate can apply lesser penalties than removal and disqualification. However, in all actual cases where a federal impeachment has led to a conviction, the official has been removed. But not all of them have been disqualified from further office. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/23 "2016-01-20T20:42:17Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > This is generally held to mean that the Senate can apply lesser penalties than removal and disqualification. However, in all actual cases where a federal impeachment has led to a conviction, the official has been removed. But not all of them have been disqualified from further office. My reading is that impeachment can’t automatically have harsher penalties than removal + disqualification. Can you cite that the Senate can impose a lesser punishment? I don’t even understand what the mechanism would be. My understanding, and IANALoS (lawyer or Senator) is that the Senate gets two options per article of impeachment: acquit or convict. If conviction is reached on any article at 2/3 or greater, the impeachee is removed from office. Are you saying there’s a later step where they impose punishment? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/24 "2016-01-20T20:58:11Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > My reading is that impeachment can’t automatically have harsher penalties than removal + disqualification. Can you cite that the Senate can impose a lesser punishment? I don’t even understand what the mechanism would be. My understanding, and IANALoS (lawyer or Senator) is that the Senate gets two options per article of impeachment: acquit or convict. If conviction is reached on any article at 2/3 or greater, the impeachee is removed from office. Are you saying there’s a later step where they impose punishment? [Here is a list](https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-resolution/1031/all-actions) of all the actions on the most recent impeachment (federal judge Thomas Porteous, for corruption.) You can see that after the Senate voted “guilty” on the four articles of impeachment, there was another, separate resolution moving to disqualify him from future office, which passed 94-2. Apparently I was conflating that step with the removal, which now that I have read the resolutions I see actually appears in the [articles of impeachment](https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-resolution/1031/text) themselves. > [@](#): > > Wherefore, Judge G. Thomas Porteous, Jr., is guilty of high crimes and > misdemeanors and should be removed from office. (etc, x4) But now I wonder why the removal from office is part of the original articles of impeachment passed by the House, but the disqualification is a separate resolution considered only after the verdict in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/25 "2016-01-20T21:04:59Z")
Federal practice has varied over time. Before 1936 the Senate would vote separately on each article of impeachment and then on removal, creating at least the theoretical possibility that a defendant could be convicted but not removed. (This never happened.) In 1936 Senate President Key Pittman, presiding over the impeachment trial of Judge Halsted Ritter, ruled that conviction on any one article carried automatic removal, and did not allow a separate vote on removal. (Disqualification still required a separate, additional vote.) This precedent has been followed ever since. Practice at the state level varies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/26 "2016-01-20T21:23:50Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > But now I wonder why the removal from office is part of the original articles of impeachment passed by the House, but the disqualification is a separate resolution considered only after the verdict in the Senate. That seems to be exactly how it works. For example, disqualification did not appear anywhere in Nixon’s articles, in which each count closed thusly: > [@](#): > > Wherefore Richard M. Nixon, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office. The “other Nixon” impeachment closed the same way: > [@](#): > > Wherefore, Judge Walter L. Nixon, Jr., is guilty of an impeachable offense and should be removed from office. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/27 "2016-01-20T21:30:52Z")
What Nixon’s articles? He was never impeached. Granted, that’s just because he voluntarily resigned before it happened, and everyone knew it would have otherwise, but any articles of impeachment against Nixon must be only drafts or proposals. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/28 "2016-01-20T21:36:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What Nixon’s articles? He was never impeached. Granted, that’s just because he voluntarily resigned before it happened, and everyone knew it would have otherwise, but any articles of impeachment against Nixon must be only drafts or proposals. They weren’t just drafts - IIRC they were reported by the Judiciary Committee to the full House but Nixon resigned before a full vote could take place. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/29 "2016-01-20T21:36:50Z")
The ® Nixon articles were passed by the House Judiciary Committee on July 27, 1974. He resigned on August 9, 1974, after Senate Republicans told him he was certain to be convicted if the articles passed the full House (which was a foregone conclusion). ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/30 "2016-01-20T21:37:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What Nixon’s articles? He was never impeached. Granted, that’s just because he voluntarily resigned before it happened, and everyone knew it would have otherwise, but any articles of impeachment against Nixon must be only drafts or proposals. The House Judiciary Committee passed three articles of impeachment (by votes of 27-11, 28-10, and 21-17–two additional articles failed) and sent them to the House floor, but Nixon resigned before they came to a vote of the full House. Yes, there are official articles of impeachment. See [The History Place - Impeachment: Richard Nixon](http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/31 "2016-01-20T21:44:52Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > [Here is a list](https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-resolution/1031/all-actions) of all the actions on the most recent impeachment (federal judge Thomas Porteous, for corruption.) > > [snip] Fascinating, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/32 "2016-01-20T21:48:38Z")
It would be a bit ironic if the POTUS, as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, could not legally carry a weapon! ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/33 "2016-01-20T23:39:04Z")
That’s an interesting angle. Two thoughts come to mind: 1. The courts, and to some extent, Congress, have traditionally given wide latitude to the President in military and foreign affairs. 2. The President has the theoretical option of commanding troops in the field, although only Washington has actually done so. Based on these points, I believe that any such restriction on a felon-president would be unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/34 "2016-01-21T00:04:50Z")
I’m sure there are lots of felons in office. They just haven’t been caught. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/35 "2016-01-21T00:12:03Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > have traditionally given wide latitude to the President in military and foreign affairs. > > 1. The President has the theoretical option of commanding troops in the field, although only Washington has actually done so. > > . Washington commanded troops in the field while serving as President? I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/36 "2016-01-21T00:15:47Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > There is no federal impediment to felons serving in Congress, but several states (as pointed out above) do not allow felons ballot access. I’m not sure that would hold up, though. Several states tried to play that game to enact term limits for their members of Congress but got slapped down. The Supreme Court ruled in that case that the list of qualifications in the Constitution were exhaustive, so state attempts to add their own qualifications were unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/37 "2016-01-21T00:54:25Z")
Lyndon Larouche also ran for president from prison in 1992. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/38 "2016-01-21T01:07:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Wow. The prison candidate was something I thought was only a hyperbolic fantasy, and I originally had that in OP! It’s more recent than 1920 too. From the 2012 Democratic primary cycle [there’s this](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0509/Ouch!-Obama-loses-41-percent-of-W.Va.-primary-vote-to-federal-inmate). > [@](#): > > In an embarrassment to President Obama, Federal Inmate No. 11593-051 – otherwise known as Keith Judd – won 10 counties and 41 percent of the vote in West Virginia’s Democratic presidential primary Tuesday. ISTR he got stripped of his delegates by DNC rules. Still he got on the ballot at the state level. He also got on the ballot in Idaho in 2008 where he finished third behind Obama and Clinton. :Apparently background checks for nuclear weapons aren’t as stringent as for firearms. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/39 "2016-01-21T06:36:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Washington commanded troops in the field while serving as President? I didn’t know that. Here’s a fairly short article about the Whiskey Rebellion. > **[Whiskey Rebellion](https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/whiskey-rebellion)** > > In January 1791, President George Washington's Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton proposed? And here’s much more detail than you probably want to know. > **[Whiskey Rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion)** > > Regular armyUS Marshals Service > The Whiskey Rebellion (also known as the Whiskey Insurrection) was a violent tax protest in the United States beginning in 1791 and ending in 1794 during the presidency of George Washington. The so-called "whiskey tax" was the first tax imposed on a domestic product by the newly formed federal government. The "whiskey tax" became law in 1791, and was intended to generate revenue to pay the war debt incurred during the Revolutionary War. Farmers of the western ... ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688/40 "2016-01-21T06:47:25Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > It would be a bit ironic if the POTUS, as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, could not legally carry a weapon! He would simply pardon himself and go buy a gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-felon-after-having-served-his-sentence-or-not-serve-as-president-or-even-run-for-office/743688.md?page=3)