# can a group of white people get together without being labelled racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474 "2002-11-06T01:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_colonel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@the\_colonel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_colonel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/1 "2002-11-06T01:28:32Z")
I envy the ‘chinese benevolent society’ members and the members of the indo-canadian community who band together to ‘network’ (uggh :rolleyes: hate that word) and help each other in business and personal issues. As a caucasian, I wouldn’t be welcomed into their circle and wouldn’t expect to be. So does the same courtesy apply to my friends and others in the white community? I’m not interested in harming any other ethnic group in any way… could a group like this work and how would said group deal with being such an easy target for a ‘racist’ label? I live in an area where caucasians make up roughly 30% of the population, asians about 30%, indo-canadians about 10% … thanks very much for any insights/replies to this honest question. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/2 "2002-11-06T01:33:15Z")
Can you be more specific with regard to the area you live in? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/3 "2002-11-06T01:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the colonel \* > \*\*I envy the ‘chinese benevolent society’ members and the members of the indo-canadian community who band together to ‘network’ (uggh :rolleyes: hate that word) and help each other in business and personal issues. As a caucasian, I wouldn’t be welcomed into their circle and wouldn’t expect to be. So does the same courtesy apply to my friends and others in the white community? \*\* Of course it does. Just in my neck of Toronto there’s a Croatian community hall, an Austrian association, an Italian association, and some sort of association for Ukranians. You do know these groups exist, right? How’s that any different from the Chinese Benevolent Society? Answer: It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/4 "2002-11-06T01:45:59Z")
Simple answer: No. A group of whites cannot form a white-only group without being labelled racist. The good news is that there are also people who would label an asian-only group as racist. ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/5 "2002-11-06T01:50:26Z")
As I was submitting this I remembered the “Ukrainian-Canadian” society just down the block from where I live. I see that **RickJay** has already addressed this issue. Any group that labels **itself** on the basis of race opens itself up to charges of racism. A group that labels itself on the basis of nationality does not. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/6 "2002-11-06T01:56:40Z")
I’ve got the Yellow Pages sitting in front of me, open to “Clubs”. We’ve got:[ul] [li]American Serbian Club[/li][li]American Slovak Club[/li][li]American Slovak Citizens Club[/li][li]American Ukranian Citizens Club[/li][li]Bohemian Club (probably doesn’t refer to the ethnic group)[/li][li]Bulgarian Macedonian Cultural Center[/li][li]Croatian Club No 602[/li][li]Croatian National Hall[/li][li]French Cultural Center of Western Pennsylvania[/li][li]German Club[/li][li]German Hungarian Singing Society[/li][li]Italian American Citizens Club (2 of them)[/li][li]Italian American Club[/li][li]Italian Beneficial Club[/li][li]Italian Club[/li][li]Italian Club of Renton[/li][li]Italian Heritage Club[/li][/ul] and that’s only up to the I’s. Need I go on? I can also attest first hand that the Daughters of the British Empire were active and holding meetings in Honolulu, Hawaii as of 8 years ago. I’d say the answer is “Yes.” Why do you ask? CJ ---
**Author:** ![the\_colonel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@the\_colonel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_colonel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/7 "2002-11-06T02:02:42Z")
hmm… OK. I split my time between vancouver island and vancouver BC. No, wasn’t aware that there was an Austrian society and for whatever reason that surprises me. if there is such a group for brits or germans in the lower mainland I’m unaware and would be just as surprised to find out there is… so I guess it comes down to who cares about labels and as long as we’re not harming anything nobody will pay us any mind… thanks, - is this server always this slow? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![the\_colonel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@the\_colonel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_colonel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/8 "2002-11-06T02:06:54Z")
cj: am very surprised to see a german club. thanks for the post, will check the local yellow pages _didn’t even think about that_ I ask for the reason stated in my post above… that “I envy the…” and’d like to join a club for the same reasons. thanks again 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/9 "2002-11-06T02:08:27Z")
Yeah, but where do you go if your an invisible multi hyphenated American or Canadian ? ---
**Author:** ![the\_colonel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@the\_colonel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_colonel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/10 "2002-11-06T02:12:42Z")
start up a marginalized-canadian society… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/11 "2002-11-06T02:14:04Z")
If you are in Victoria, there is a German club called the Edelweiss Club. With regard to the Bohemian club, I’ll bet the’re Czechs. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/12 "2002-11-06T02:14:48Z")
In that case, you’ve got a group of white people which I envy dearly – change ringers! That’s one club my city lacks. I’m sorry if I over reacted – a few weeks ago, we had a problem with white supremacists. Welcome to the SDMB. While we’re hardly the Vancouver Island Benevolent Society, we do have a lot of neat, interesting conversations here. CJ ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/13 "2002-11-06T02:31:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the colonel \*\* is this server always this slow? 😕 \*\* The server is unfortunately often this slow, but we’re worth the wait.🙂 Welcome to the board, **the colonel**. ---
**Author:** ![the\_colonel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@the\_colonel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_colonel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/14 "2002-11-06T03:09:10Z")
cj: no problem, that reaction is exactly what I’m trying to gauge… when I hear “german club” I can’t believe they’re allowed to meet in peace. Does a brits-only or german-only club worry people? dunno… hope to find out sometime (as in: I hope I find a club like that) thx december… how long’s the SD been around and how active are the mods or trolls in keeping things orderly? ---
**Author:** ![Virtuosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/35a633/32.png) [@Virtuosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Virtuosity)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/15 "2002-11-06T04:44:19Z")
whether or not a group is labeled rcist is a function of membership. If you HAVE to be white to join then yeah it is racist. Same with the asian groups or whatever. It is only racist if you EXCLUDE someone becasue of their race. Now if people are uninterested in joinng becasue of their race that is their choice but if an asian wants into your club and you deny him solely becasue of his race then you are racist. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/16 "2002-11-06T05:12:27Z")
Basing a voluntary private association on something legitimate & identifiable, such as national heritage (i.e. English, German, Chinese, etc.), religous heritage (Catholic, Jewish, etc) or regional heritage (Asian, Latin American, etc.) is not racist. Doing the same based on relative melanin content of the skin would be racist. Of course, Western hemisphere blacks get a pass on this one, since their national pedigrees got muddied in the unpleasantness of the 15th-19th centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/17 "2002-11-06T08:30:58Z")
Melanin content of the skin (or luminosity, hue, Pantone scale, Rembrandt scale, etc.) is even more objective than nationality. A voluntary private club is justified in using either criterion to include or exclude members. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/18 "2002-11-06T13:04:39Z")
I don’t get it. Why can’t you get the same support from any club that you wish to join? Why does it have to be race based? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/19 "2002-11-06T13:59:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the colonel \* > \*\*\* is this server always this slow? 😕 \*\* Yes. > [@](#): > > cj: no problem, that reaction is exactly what I’m trying to gauge… when I hear “german club” I can’t believe they’re allowed to meet in peace. Does a brits-only or german-only club worry people? **cj,** I don’t mean to cast personal aspersions here, but I get the sense you’re either not looking very hard or you’re just not getting out much. I don’t understand how this could come as a surprise. German, Austrian, British, Italian, Slovak, Serb, Russian, Irish and other white-folks clubs, associations, and societies are EVERYWHERE. Heck, cj, we have a special day set aside in Canada just to celebrate one of the whitest ethnicities there is. It’s called “St. Patrick’s Day.” In Vancouver, where you live, I did a Yellow Pages search. I found the Italian Centre (seven different locations), the Canadian Croatian Congress and Croatian Cultural Centre, an old folks home for German-Canadians and a German-Canadian Chamber of Congress, a rest home for Swedish Canadians, the Federation of Russian-Canadians, two Polish Community Centres - it goes on and on. Does it worry me? No. These groups aren’t identified by exclusion, they’re identified by inclusion. Chinese-Canadians and German-Canadians and what have you get together to help each other out because they have something in common, not because they’re keeping out the Poles and the Slovaks. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474/20 "2002-11-06T14:34:59Z")
> [@](#): > > cj, I don’t mean to cast personal aspersions Er, Rick, I believe you were intending to address the Colonel here, not CJ? All CJ did so far was look up clubs in the Yellow Pages, actually making your identical point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-group-of-white-people-get-together-without-being-labelled-racist/135474.md?page=2)