# Can a homeless person get a drivers license? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053 "2012-07-12T22:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/21 "2012-07-14T05:45:45Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > So what? There are thousands of more tortured hypotheticals posed here. If you’re not interested in the OP as stated, there are are more straightforward queries in other threads. If my comments got the OP to clarify his meaning and the drift of his interest, then why should I leave this thread? Or are you the thread traffic director around here? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/22 "2012-07-14T06:33:35Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > Or are you the thread traffic director around here? :rolleyes: You mean the whistle, white gloves and the pointy hat weren’t a dead give-a-way? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/23 "2012-07-14T23:12:20Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Must one simply lie and hope to never get caught? I really don’t care if you have me on ignore or something, but no - he does not need to lie. He should just read posts #10 and #16 to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/24 "2012-07-15T07:30:36Z")
**@Munch** : So, what does Mr. Homeless Dude have to do, in order to use a homeless shelter address? Check in and stay there for one night, and then use the shelter address thereafter? Or be resident at the shelter on the day he applies for a license? Or just know the address of the shelter even if he never stayed there? Is this really allowed, or simply something that’s easy to get away with if DMV doesn’t check too carefully? In short, if homeless people can use a shelter address for drivers licenses, what are the rules about it? (ETA: Are you wondering if I have you on ignore? If so, of course, the board rules prohibit me from telling you. I assume this logically means I’m also prohibited from telling you if I DON’T have you on ignore. Go figure 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/25 "2012-07-15T13:00:22Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > (Bold added.) This is the scenario I was mostly thinking of, with this additional twist: Existing car owner and licensed driver loses home, but still has car and license. (And gets all mail at a P. O. Box.) But must renew car registration every year, and renew drivers license once every several years. So the primary question is about the renewal process, for both car registration and license. Must one simply lie and hope to never get caught? My brother did that for years. He’s homeless but he would get money from my mother, and had various cars over the years. Once you have a drivers license, which he did before he became homeless, he didn’t need any additional documents to maintain it. I don’t know exactly how he did it all but I guess showing up and paying cash seems to work the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/26 "2012-07-16T13:18:57Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > **@Munch** : So, what does Mr. Homeless Dude have to do, in order to use a homeless shelter address? All an address does for the BMV is verify that you’re a permanent resident of the state. In Indiana, they keep two addresses - your legal address (to know that you’re a resident) and a mailing address (so they can mail you stuff). In most cases, that’s the same address. As long as your legal resident status doesn’t change (i.e. you’ve moved to a different state), they do not care. Most homeless shelters worth their salt allow guests to utilize their address for this purpose. Many cities, in fact, have what is called a “day shelter” - a homeless services organization that provides a place for training, counseling, basic services like a shower/laundry/cup of coffee, and a mailbox. > [@](#): > > Is this really allowed, or simply something that’s easy to get away with if DMV doesn’t check too carefully? It’s absolutely allowed. You’re not going to find it on their website or anything\*, but it’s fine. For a few years now, I’ve been involved with a local annual event that attempts to get representatives from as many services as possible under one roof on one particular day. One of those services is to get guests valid identification (so to do that, we need to organize HHS to be there to provide birth certificates, the BMV to be there and set up a mobile identification service, etc.). For those truly living on the street, they are told to use the address of the day shelter, as that is a perfectly valid address, can be verified, and is accessible to the homeless person in question. \*Edit: [Actually](http://www.in.gov/bmv/2770.htm): > [@](#): > > Homeless applicants without a residence address. You must complete a residency affidavit and provide a letter from the government entity or not-for-profit organization on its letterhead showing the facility’s name, address, and telephone number, and showing the legal representative’s name, signature, and signature date. The legal representative must state in the letter that the entity or organization provides services to the applicant and will accept delivery of mail for the applicant. ---
**Author:** ![homeliss18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@homeliss18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/homeliss18)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/27 "2013-01-25T14:23:31Z")
Ive been living in my car for the past year. I had a drivers license before I became homeless. All I had to do when I renewed my licence last month was tell them I hadn’t changed my address and they just gave me a new license. This is in Ohio, Im sure each state is different. I have looked into using different ways to obtain a drivers licence in different states and it seams the best alternative is to use a ups mailbox or other virtual mail system. ups mail will give you a real address. Ive never tried this before but if anyone out there has let me know! ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/28 "2013-01-25T14:48:17Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/29 "2013-01-25T14:58:37Z")
I would think one issue is that in many states, ID implies residency so if homeless how could you prove you’re a legal resident of the state? Add to that that some states are also lawful residence states so if you’re homeless how can you prove you’re here legally? Not to say it’s impossible but (sadly IMHO) it is harder to prove that you are entitled to a drivers licence than to register to vote (where you only have to say you’re a citizen and not prove it). ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/30 "2013-01-25T21:06:22Z")
> [@homeliss18](#): > > Ive been living in my car for the past year. I had a drivers license before I became homeless. All I had to do when I renewed my licence last month was tell them I hadn’t changed my address and they just gave me a new license. This is in Ohio, Im sure each state is different. > > I have looked into using different ways to obtain a drivers licence in different states and it seams the best alternative is to use a ups mailbox or other virtual mail system. ups mail will give you a real address. Ive never tried this before but if anyone out there has let me know! I live in Ohio also; A) The person who signs an application for a temporary instruction permit identification card, driver’s license, commercial driver’s license, motorcycle operator’s license, or identification card shall present along with the application identification documents sufficient to establish the person’s true identity including the person’s full legal name, date of birth, legal presence in the United States, **residence street address in the state of Ohio** , and social security number in accordance with this rule. > **[Rule 4501:1-1-21 - Ohio Administrative Code | Ohio Laws](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-administrative-code/rule-4501:1-1-21)** also; 4501:1-1-35 Residency for driving and identification purposes. (A) No Ohio driver’s license, commercial driver’s license, motorcycle operator’s license, temporary instruction permit identification card (TIPIC) or identification card other than a nonrenewable license or a nonrenewable identification card shall be issued to any person unless that person qualifies as a resident of Ohio under this rule. (B) The registrar of motor vehicles and all deputy registrars, in determining the residency of a person applying for an Ohio driver’s license, commercial driver’s license, motorcycle operator’s license, TIPIC, or identification card shall be governed by this rule. (C) For the purpose of this rule, “resident” of Ohio means a person who is a native-born or naturalized citizen of the United States or a person who presents credible evidence from the United States citizen and immigration services (USCIS) that the person is a permanent resident of the United States; and (1) The person currently either lives within Ohio; or (2) The person has left Ohio, for temporary purposes only, with a specific intention to return to Ohio to live. The case law Annotations will/may provide insight on whether a homeless person living in a shelter or car can legally secure a DL? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/31 "2013-01-25T21:15:42Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Keep in mind, this isn’t permission to own a car or to even rent a car, it’s permission to drive a car if the situation comes up. That’s a pretty basic need/desire/right. Definitely not a right, driving is a privilege. Judges remind people of this everyday as they send them off to jail / rehab / mom’s basement to live in shame. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/32 "2013-01-26T04:58:17Z")
Okay, now that this thread’s resurfaced, I see a lot of replies (even back from last July) that I don’t recall seeing before. Especially **Munch** , thanks for all the insights there. In CA, I believe it’s specifically required (or at least, all the forms say so), that you give a _residence_ address. There are separate lines on the forms for a _mailing_ address, if different (e.g., typically a PO box). You have to sign under penalty of perjury that these addresses are “true, correct, and existing” or something like that. I have the impression that The Powers That Be really want a residence address because they really want to know where they can find you when they want to come and get you. I’m a little skeptical about how homeless shelter addresses work, because typically, homeless people are only allowed to stay there for limited periods of time; besides, there are far more homeless people than there are shelter beds, so only a small number of all the homeless people get to see the inside of one. The rest just bed down in downtown doorways, culverts, or makeshift camps down by the river or somewhere, and are very nomadic. So I guess my real questions, when you get right down to the core, are (a) Does the DMV have any procedure or whatever, to accommodate the homeless, for purpose of granting either an ID card or a drivers license? (And have there been any court cases finding that a State has a duty to make some such process available for homeless people?) (b) Or does a homeless person simply have to lie on the forms, to get a license or vehicle registration renewal? And does the DMV follow up or otherwise enforce their address requirements? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/33 "2013-01-26T05:34:40Z")
Isn’t the requirement for an address just proof of residence in the particular state? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/34 "2013-01-26T06:37:04Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > (a) Does the DMV have any procedure or whatever, to accommodate the homeless, for purpose of granting either an ID card or a drivers license? (And have there been any court cases finding that a State has a duty to make some such process available for homeless people?) > > (b) Or does a homeless person simply have to lie on the forms, to get a license or vehicle registration renewal? And does the DMV follow up or otherwise enforce their address requirements? As far as I can tell, the answer to (a) is “no,” and the answer to (b) is “kind of.” You can put any address (except a P.O. box) as your “residence” on the application or the renewal. They don’t have the resources to verify if it’s true. The address that matters is the mailing address, which is where they send the card. Many homeless shelters offer [mail pick-up services](http://alphaproject.org/programs/neil-good-day-center/) for precisely this kind of thing, and you don’t have to actually be staying in the shelter to use the service. Also, in California, at least, this isn’t about whether someone is living in their car or not, because all of the same provisions apply for a state ID card. ---
**Author:** ![Dai1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@Dai1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dai1951)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/35 "2013-11-12T07:03:28Z")
Well I have a question following on the homeless drivers situation. What does whether you have a home or not have to do with your ability to drive? I would have thought that t is straight out discrimination to preclude homeless folk from driving. No? Reason I am interested in this thread is that I currently live in China on a one year business visa which allows me to stay 90 days at a time BUT I am not resident in China and socan not get a Chinese license or convert my old US (Florida) license to a Chinese one. TheDMV in Florida will not allow me to renew my license on line. I no longer live in Florida any case but I do have to have a drivers license from somewhere. Because I am not actually a resident anywhere it seems that I can not get a license anywhere. After 40 years of driving this is beginning to really aggravate me…does any one have a useful suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/36 "2013-11-12T18:55:02Z")
As has been mentioned, many “homeless” people have employment, vehicles, and can afford at least the occasional hotel stay when they get sick of or cannot get into a shelter. Most people we call “homeless” are only in that state temporarily. The people who are long-term homeless, who fit the caricature of the crazy, bearded man living on the corner for years at a time, only constitute a minority of the homeless population. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/37 "2013-11-13T04:44:22Z")
Okay, since this thread has burbled up again . . . I see there have been some comments above, questioning whether a homeless person can even buy or own a car, or insurance, and questions about a homeless person’s “rights”, and so forth. Here is a bit of new data for the mix. TL;DR: Did 9/11 change everything? Okay, I bought a used car about a month ago. They did a credit report on me, and a routine background check (the same sort landlords do when you want to rent, I think) – all this, even though I was paying CASH (well, actually, a check, but they called my bank too, to make sure the check was good). The dealer explained to me that a lot of this is now mandated by Federal “Know Your Customer” laws, to make sure they aren’t selling a car to a terrorist or something like that. So I guess if you somehow end up on a terrorist watch-list, you can’t even buy a car any more. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/38 "2013-11-14T03:34:26Z")
> [@Dai1951](#): > > Well I have a question following on the homeless drivers situation. What does whether you have a home or not have to do with your ability to drive? I would have thought that t is straight out discrimination to preclude homeless folk from driving. No? > Reason I am interested in this thread is that I currently live in China on a one year business visa which allows me to stay 90 days at a time BUT I am not resident in China and socan not get a Chinese license or convert my old US (Florida) license to a Chinese one. TheDMV in Florida will not allow me to renew my license on line. I no longer live in Florida any case but I do have to have a drivers license from somewhere. Because I am not actually a resident anywhere it seems that I can not get a license anywhere. After 40 years of driving this is beginning to really aggravate me…does any one have a useful suggestion? What you should have done before you went to China was apply for an “International license”, which is a translated copy of your Florida license. The translation allows local officials in China to understand your license; however it is the real Florida license that would allow you to drive in China. I would recommend calling the Florida DMV from China to see what can be done (calling the DMV in the middle of the night is fun!). You may have to snail mail the documents, because security policies may prohibit international online transactions. (This is assuming China recognizes American drivers licenses, however I have a Chinese friend who up until recently used his Chinese license + international license to drive in the United States, so I think it is a safe assumption 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/39 "2013-11-14T08:10:21Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > In my state you need insurance to get a drivers license. Even if you don’t have a car, you still need to get a non-owners policy. I imagine a homeless person would have a hard time paying for coverage. As far as I know, all states issue state IDs, which don’t grant driving privileges, but which can be used as an ID in any case where a driver’s license would work. A state ID holder wouldn’t need driver’s insurance if s/he doesn’t drive. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053/40 "2013-11-14T09:00:10Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > This is assuming China recognizes American drivers licenses, however I have a Chinese friend who up until recently used his Chinese license + international license to drive in the United States, so I think it is a safe assumption 🙂 China doesn’t allow people to drive with foreign licenses (including from its own territories of Hong Kong and Macau). Driving requires a Chinese license. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-homeless-person-get-a-drivers-license/628053.md?page=3)