# Can a LiveJournal icon infringe on copyright?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 5, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326 "2006-10-05T00:18:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/1 "2006-10-05T00:18:12Z")
Suppose you pull an image from a comic strip, Photoshop it, and use it as a LiveJournal icon. Say the image is Harriet Hedgehog, from the strip _Woods for the Trees_, running away in a panic, and you keep that image, but change the dialogue balloon, which originally said, “Look out for the bear!” to one that says, “Help, I’m trapped in a boring comic strip!”
Now suppose you got a cease-and-desist email from the staff of _Woods for the Trees_. Are they within their rights to tell you this? And what will happen to you if you don’t comply?
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### Author:  [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/2 "2006-10-05T01:03:00Z")
What does the cease-and-desist letter assert?
IANAL, but technically you have violated copyright by making a copy of a (presumably) copyrighted work. In certain circumstances, the law provides for statutory damages of up to $150,000 per incident. I don’t know if your _theoretical_ situation would fall into that range, although I suspect probably not.
Theoretically, they could file a lawsuit if you fail to desist, but it’s relatively unlikely, in my non-lawyer’s opinion, because it’s probably not worth the trouble, unless you are a competitor, very rich, or are somehow seriously harming their business.
There could be a couple of things going on here. First, they may be pissed off that you’ve insulted the strip. They may not have bothered if you had just used the image unchanged. Or they may just automatically send out these letters every time they come across one of these violations. I imagine the majority of people receiving them comply rather than risk legal hassles.
In any case, you do not have the _right_ to copy their property. Only they have that right. The question is, can you get away with it?
As a creator of intellectual property, and the victim of real, actual losses from copyright violations, I cannot condone violation of copyright law. But if you do nothing, I would be surprised if anything happens, except perhaps more threatening letters. But if you end up in court, don’t call on me as a character witness.
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/3 "2006-10-05T01:09:40Z")
Hm. Okay, I’ll take that into consideration.
Meanwhile, what about LiveJournal – is the icon-creating person’s account in jeopardy?
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/4 "2006-10-05T01:28:14Z")
It was LiveJournal who sent the message, not the WftT crew.
\*Dear LiveJournal user,
We have received a report, properly formatted under the provisions set
forth by United States law, indicating that your userpics located at and violate the copyright of another. As such, we direct you to delete these userpics and cease using the material on LiveJournal as soon as possible, but no later than Sunday October 8th at 12:01 AM EDT, to avoid further action against your account.
If you feel that this report is in error or that your use of the material falls under one of the categories permitted under copyright law, you are entitled to file a counter-notification, also under the provisions of US law; please contact us for information on how to do this. Filing a counter-notification indicates that you are willing to defend yourself in court against a charge of copyright infringement, and you may be bound by civil and possibly criminal penalties if you are found liable.
Regards,
LiveJournal Abuse Team\*
So I guess the icon-maker is screwed. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/5 "2006-10-05T01:57:09Z")
LJ is issuing the notice to a LJ account holder because said account holder is using a copyrighted icon for which the account holder apparently does not have permission to use from the copyright holder. It matters not as to who created the modified icon; an account holder is using it in a public way. The copyright owner is merely protecting their property.
IANAL. YMMV.
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/6 "2006-10-05T02:01:30Z")
So is there any way to **get** permission from the copyright holder?
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### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/7 "2006-10-05T02:05:34Z")
Wait, doesn’t this fall under the satire/parody fair use test for copyright infringement?
[Here’s a PDF](http://www.abanet.org/litigation/committees/intellectual/roundtables/0506_outline.pdf#search=%22copyright%20satire%20law%22) that explains some of that.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/8 "2006-10-05T02:14:44Z")
It does sound like it’s fair use under copyright.
**However** , there are potential _trademark_ issues using the image. It’s possible that the lawyers notified LiveJournal of a _trademark_ violation, and Livejournal sent out the \*copyright \* violation boilerplate.
Legally, you can use the trademark in this manner as long as it’s noncompetitive, **but** the trademark owner will send out a letter if they become aware of it. They probably aren’t worried about your use, but they want to be on record because if a serious copyright case came up, they can prove they tried to defend their trademark. You can get these letters if you use the sentence “He xeroxed the paper,” even though Xerox really can’t do anything to stop you, and would be fools to take you to court over it (What if they lost?).
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-livejournal-icon-infringe-on-copyright/375326/9 "2006-10-05T02:17:55Z")
LiveJournal is not a court. It presumably has a user agreement, just as the Dope does. If it finds that a user is in violation of its user agreement, then it’s up to the users to file the multi-thousand dollar lawsuit and defend themselves. Whether any court will consider any particular image a parody is a crap shoot given recent court decisions. And no ordinary user could afford to let it get that far.