# Can a Native English Speaker Ever Truly Learn Mandarin Chinese? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804 "2022-06-07T11:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804/81 "2022-06-10T19:44:08Z")
> [@Didi44](#): > > When I think of and when someone says Standard Chinese, I’m going by the official designation of Putonghua, Beijing dialect as the Official Standard Chinese / Mandarin. > > I agree that it’s an artificially derived designation, which in theory could change and historically has if the government changed and the rule and capital moved South. But it’s what we have, regardless of what we perceive it should be, in a country with a diverse and beautiful dialects and languages. > > **Standard Chinese** ([simplified Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 现代标准汉语; [traditional Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 現代標準漢語; [pinyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin): _Xiàndài biāozhǔn hànyǔ_ ; [lit.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_translation) ‘modern standard Han speech’)—in [linguistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics) **Standard Northern Mandarin** [[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-John_Rohsenow_2004-7)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-Yunyun_Ran_2016-8)[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-David_Bradley_2008-9) or **Standard Beijing Mandarin** ,[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-Jeff_Siegel_2003-10)[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-Ying-Chuan_Chen2013-11) in common speech simply **Mandarin** ,[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#cite_note-Weng,_Jeffrey_2018_611%E2%80%93633-12) better qualified as **Standard Mandarin** , **Modern Standard Mandarin** or **Standard Mandarin Chinese** —is the [dialect of Mandarin Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese#Subgrouping) that emerged as the [lingua franca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca) among speakers of Mandarin and other [varieties of Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese) ([Hokkien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Min), [Cantonese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese), et cetera) in the 20th century. It is designated as the [official language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language) of [mainland China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language) and a major language in the [United Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_languages), [Singapore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Singapore), and [Taiwan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Taiwan). It is based on the [Beijing dialect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_dialect). “Based on the Beijing dialect” does not mean “identical to the Beijing dialect.” It also doesn’t mean that the Standard can’t be spoken properly by someone with a non-Beijing accent or that someone who speaks with a non-Beijing accent can’t be expert enough to critique Standard Mandarin. Again, would you disqualify someone with a Georgia accent or a Devonshire accent from being a judge of Standard English? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804/82 "2022-06-10T21:30:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think we’re all trying to parse Jim’s sentence in a way that it might make some sort of sense. The Straight Dope. Trying to Parse Jim’s Sentences Since 1973. (It’s Taking Longer Than We Thought). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804/83 "2022-06-11T05:33:53Z")
Cracks me up that people who don’t speak the language are trying to explain this. Based on the Beijing dialect is something akin to the English spoken in NY City. Think a heavy bronx accent as equivalent to the language of Beijing Hutongs. Whereas “standard Mandarin” might be more akin to Broadway performances. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804/84 "2022-06-11T13:22:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > > [@Jim\_B](#): > > > > I remember in one college class I had, the teacher played a video of a Native American using a sound native to that language. And most of the people in the class literally didn’t hear a thing. > > Not that I’ve ever looked into it, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any noise that humans of one culture can make while humans of another culture somehow can’t hear. > That doesn’t seem like a thing. > And, like some of your other threads, your memory of this isn’t a cite. As it happens, I know what the OP is referring to and as speculated by JoeyP and others, it is indeed two sounds that English speakers lose the ability to distinguish at some low age (like 2). The experimental setup involved babies of varying ages sitting in a chair facing a certain direct and hearing sound 1 over and over. Then sound 2 plays and a toy to their side illuminates so the child can see it and the toy moves too I think. The experiment tracks which children anticipate the toy based on the sound. Children who can hear the sound turn to look at the spot where the toy will be before the light turns on. Children who can’t only turn to look when the light illuminates. Something something brain development something something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-native-english-speaker-ever-truly-learn-mandarin-chinese/965804.md?page=4)