Yup. That was a kind of weird work environment in that it was Absolutely Not Done to make casual conversation with people in other projects about what they were working on. Not that any of us in describing our work in general terms were likely to get within a country mile of revealing any actual classified data, but that was just the better-safe-than-sorry corporate culture.
Good training in minding one’s own business. (And really sharpens one’s appreciation for more curiosity-friendly environments like academia and the SDMB, where it’s pretty much allowed to talk to anybody about anything. Some of us are a little apt to abuse that license with endless digressions, of course, so in unrelated news I think I will shut up now. )
The most damaging U.S. spy during the Cold War, Aldritch Ames, turned over top secret info to the Soviets, not for ideology, but for cash. He and his wife had expensive tastes, tastes that couldn’t be satisfied on a government salary.
Right. That is both the “need to know” requirement which applies to all classified information and the “Compartmentalized” part of SCI (which term you have probably seen in the news reports). The whole point of compartmentalization and secure access programs is because just about everybody has a Secret clearance at DoD and contractors. You need a better way to identify and control who has specific access to specific information.
Probably, yes. I remember causing a stink by accidentally answering a question wrong about where a coworker went to college. I assumed he went to a particular school because he grew up there and was a big fan of their sports team. Turns out he didn’t and that discrepancy caused some delays in him getting access.
To the specific question in the OP, you do have to be careful about “what a derivative classifier” can do (spelled out in various manuals) vs “what the POTUS” can do. It is entirely possible, although nonsensical, that the POTUS can declassify a specific document without declassifying the information underlying the document. These things have never really been adjudicated. But at least conceptually, other than nuclear information classified by statute, there isn’t necessarily any limit to what POTUS could do (while POTUS, of course, not after).
Sure, it is absurd to warn employees about reading public information. But the reason you got a warning is, if you are a Fed, and you use your computer to view top secret compartmented documents, then that computer is now classified and has to be handled appropriately. If you stick a USB drive in it, it is also now classified, and so on.
Someone who’d ideologically inclined towards espionage, you’re probably going to either catch them very quickly, or never catch them no matter how many questions you ask, so it’s not worth spending much effort there. What they’ve mainly interested in is what an enemy could use to get leverage over you, which is usually either money or blackmail. So if you’ve had a secret affair, or are a closeted homosexual, for instance, those could disqualify you, because they could be used to blackmail you… but if everyone already knows about your affairs, or you’re regularly marching in the Pride Parade, then that’s not an issue.
Even if something classified appears in regular print or the news, that does not make a item or situation unclassified. “Everybody knows…” is not declassification. You need an actual piece of paper with the old classification stamped over with dates and authority for declassification/lower classification. If you ask me if a place I was stationed at during my career had nuclear weapons, I still will neither confirm nor deny. I and others here (Stranger, Tripler, et al) have had the coveted TTSBBR* clearance. Somewhere in a government warehouse there is a 2 or 3 inch thick stack of signed papers where my life, liberty, first born, etc… are at risk if I open my trap. I’ve been read into SCI (CNWDI**) situations, not that exciting but another sheet of two of paper with my signature.
*TTSBBR - fictional classification - Tippy Top Secret Burn Before Reading.
**CNWDI - Critical Nuclear Weapon Design Information
When I was applying for a security clearance (this was around 30 years ago and many jobs ago) I accidentally omitted one job from my application: I had been a tour guide for prospective students at my alma mater. It was really more like a hobby than a job, I enjoyed showing people around the campus. And the pay was minimal: Maybe $5 per tour, and I did maybe three tours a week.
So several years later when I was at a job that required a clearance, I forgot this item. Well, somehow they found out about it and they came down on me like a ton of bricks. “Are you sure you haven’t left out a job? Remember, lying about this is very serious!”
The entire classification system was set up by Truman with an executive order, most recently modified by Obama. Two things follow. First the president can modify it in any way he pleases. But he’s got to document it with another XO. Which TFG does not appear to have done. Among other things this means that there are no criminal penalties, pace @Kimstu, for misusing the classified information.
BUT, and it is huge but, there certainly are criminal penalties for violating the official secrets act by revealing important information. I don’t recall the details, but such things as atomic secrets (assuming there are any at this date), names of spies, that sort of thing. This was an act of congress signed by a president with criminal penalties attached. Whether if could amount to a capital crime is not mentioned, although I suppose you could be tried for treason, which is. And this is independent of classification, in fact the law preceded the system (IIRC, it was from 1917).
Incidentally, John Bolton has said that if Trump had given an order that anything going to Trump’s residence was ipso facto declassified, Trump kept that secret from him.
FWIW, this seemed to be a recurring problem in the Trump administration: the unfounded belief that the President of the United States is the most powerful human being on Earth and can rule by dictat and pronouncement. When in fact, even the President can accomplish nothing unless the bureaucracy is directed to carry out an action and does what they’re ordered to do. Without the cooperation of the civil service, the President is effectively powerless.
Ooh, I got pace’d. You may very well be right, I do still remember that long-ago signing of a document that acknowledged that I understood some potential violations could carry a capital penalty, and I know it had something to do with information confidentiality, but I could not swear that it referred specifically to “misusing classified information”.
This is true. That’s why TFG was always complaining about the deep state. And they were preparing to effectively abolish the upper civil service, meaning anyone who has any impact on policy.
As did I. I didn’t even have any kind of clearance at the time (mine had lapsed years before, not that I ever used it…).
As a side note, my employer ALSO sent out a note (at a different time) to the effect that “Yeah, weed is legal in some states. It’s still illegal at the Federal level. You are NOT permitted to indulge”.
I read an interview with someone involved in the START talks back in the early 80’s. He said the talks were going nowhere and the top Soviet brass were obfuscating. One of the exasperated American negotiators finally said to them “look - we know you have missiles here, here, here, and here…” and proceeded to rattle off the numbers while pointing at a map. The Missile Group general looked shocked - pointed to the Soviet admiral and said “You can’t him that! It’s classified!”
IIRC, that was the case with Benedict Arnold, too.
One item in the news is that Defense nuclear secrets are classified under a law passed by congress, and the DoD must actively sign off on the proper procedure to declassify it. So there is at least one category of secret that waving a presidential magic wand cannot simply declassify.
I would imagine the “I declassified it when I was president” falls in the same category as “I issued myself a pardon”. There’s no such thing as Schrodinger’s double-secret probationary pardons or declassifications. If there’s no definitive evidence that it existed at the time, (like “in writing” and incontrovertible authentically dated) then it has no value.
More interesting, I pointed out to a relative that his mother had been a naturalized Canadian citizen well before he was born, so he should be able to apply for his Canadian citizenship certificate. Not apply for citizenship - by inheritance, he already was Canadian. Just for the papers to prove it. He said he wouldn’t, because being certified a dual citizen might mess up his fairly high US military security clearance.
There was a Republican congressman trying to justify the fact that documents containing classified information from 2 years ago might likely be public knowledge now, so things were not as bad as portrayed. He gave the example that maybe something about Zawahiri would be secret two years ago, but now everyone knows he was in Kabul… until he wasn’t. So that information should no longer be classified, there’s no harm in revealing it.
Which actually, to my mind, proves why he’s wrong. A document describing Zawahiri’s location likely would contain details that could lead outsiders to the technology or sources (Which was it - Betrayed by a Taliban insider? Rat him for a benefit to the Taliban? Voice analysis of cellphone data? Can the USA still intercept Afghan phone calls? Hi-res satellite photos? Which satellites, how good are they?) Declassifying something without detailed preparatory analysis risks hinting at or outright revealing trade secrets.
Of course the sin here is in revealing what the US surveillance tech was capable of. Not just what it was capable of detecting, but worse, if he didn’t list all of the missile locations he would potentially be revealing what the US couldn’t detect. That is the sort of information that is seriously valuable.
This is the core problem in managing classified information. The information itself may be apparently innocuous, now public knowledge, or obsolete. But that doesn’t make it any less dangerous. The manner of its gathering, the fact of its gathering, its accuracy, and cross correlation with other facts can lead to revealing information of continuing critical importance. Everything about it can lead to damage to ongoing operations or diplomatic relations. If Trump has an old file on the French president, just the public knowledge of its existence is probably already causing damage. And so it goes.
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You may very well be right, I do still remember that long-ago signing of a document that acknowledged that I understood some potential violations could carry a capital penalty, and I know it had something to do with information confidentiality, but I could not swear that it referred specifically to “misusing classified information”.