# Can a schoolteacher be fired for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-schoolteacher-be-fired-for-refusing-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance/535104 "2010-04-06T02:18:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-schoolteacher-be-fired-for-refusing-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance/535104/41 "2010-04-07T20:29:28Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Sorry, I’ve never been required to take that kind of vow about my own country, either. The only ones who are required to do so in Spain are soldiers and Guardia Civiles, and back when I was of a soldierly age I wasn’t allowed to be one by reason of gender. The vast majority of Spaniards, either by birth or adoption, and of people living in Spain, are not required to defend either the flag or the country. People in Spain are legally required to not attack either, though, but “not attacking” is not the same as “defending”, nor this the same as “risking life and limb”. The American Pledge of Allegiance is hardly what one would call martial. Instead, it represents an affirmation of the values that we aspire to make constitutive of our country. Its text, for those who are unfamiliar, is: _I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all._ The “under God” part, as is well-known on these boards, is an innovation dating to the early Cold War (in 1954, eleven years after _Barnette_ forbade compulsory recitation by students) and added to make it distinctly American (and in contradistinction to the godless Communists). Whatever you make of that rationale, and I certainly feel it leaves a lot to be desired, that’s how it got in. The rest of the Pledge, however, is not about taking up arms or resisting to the uttermost. Instead it is a promise to abide by the values of democracy/small-r republicanism, unity, liberty, justice, and equality. Which, candidly, it seems to me are promises perfectly appropriate to extract from American government employees and perfectly appropriate to inculcate in American schoolchildren under the rubric of civic virtue. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-schoolteacher-be-fired-for-refusing-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance/535104/42 "2010-04-07T21:07:59Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > The American Pledge of Allegiance is hardly what one would call martial. Instead, it represents an affirmation of the values that we aspire to make constitutive of our country. Its text, for those who are unfamiliar, is: > > _I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all._ > > The “under God” part, as is well-known on these boards, is an innovation dating to the early Cold War (in 1954, eleven years after _Barnette_ forbade compulsory recitation by students) and added to make it distinctly American (and in contradistinction to the godless Communists). Whatever you make of that rationale, and I certainly feel it leaves a lot to be desired, that’s how it got in. > > The rest of the Pledge, however, is not about taking up arms or resisting to the uttermost. Instead it is a promise to abide by the values of democracy/small-r republicanism, unity, liberty, justice, and equality. Which, candidly, it seems to me are promises perfectly appropriate to extract from American government employees and perfectly appropriate to inculcate in American schoolchildren under the rubric of civic virtue. Let me ask you, what is your opinion of the Barnette case, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-schoolteacher-be-fired-for-refusing-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance/535104/43 "2010-04-07T21:25:48Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Let me ask you, what is your opinion of the Barnette case, specifically? I think _Barnette_ was correctly decided. I think [_Wooley v. Maynard_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooley_v._Maynard) was correctly decided. I am conflicted by [_Pruneyard_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruneyard_Shopping_Center_v._Robins) (which has a compulsory element vis-a-vis the shopping center owner, but I also recognize that these locations have become the modern-day public square, in part become shopping mall developers want them to be that because it means more money for them and their tenants). In short, I have little affection for compelling the speech of civilians. However, the government (and some of us even cling to the quaint idea that that means “we the people”) is certainly allowed to stake out a position and advocate for it. And that’s what this is: the government speaking through one of its employees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-schoolteacher-be-fired-for-refusing-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance/535104.md?page=2)