# Can a six year old commit murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2023, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825 "2023-01-07T08:24:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/21 "2023-01-10T02:10:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > _Kids! I don’t know what’s wrong with these kids today!_… They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were fucked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/22 "2023-01-30T16:29:33Z")
> **[School where boy shot teacher reopens with added security](https://apnews.com/article/newport-news-elementary-to-reopen-after-shooting-373219859e07e0714ca65071bc70be97)** > > NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) — The Virginia elementary school where a 6-year-old boy shot his teacher reopened Monday with stepped-up security and a new administrator, as nervous parents and students expressed optimism about a return to the classroom. It was a poor decision to have the school shut down for 3 weeks because of this shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/23 "2023-01-30T16:36:29Z")
Oh, yes, they certainly are quite capable. Unless they work in a primary environment, most adults would be very surprised and even shocked at what children can do. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/24 "2023-01-30T16:38:12Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Oh, yes, they certainly are quite capable. They are quite capable of killing. They are legally incapable of committing murder. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/25 "2023-01-30T16:40:10Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They are quite capable of killing. They are legally incapable of committing murder. As as been shown many times over ad infinitum, “legal” and “just” are far from synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/26 "2023-01-30T17:56:31Z")
An 8-year-old, possibly a six-year-old, are probably capable of wanting to kill someone, or at least of doing great harm to someone if angry enough. They don’t necessarily have the impulse control to not do it if the means are at hand. And they certainly don’t have a full understanding of the consequences of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/27 "2023-01-30T20:29:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Ummmm … the 5th Amendment has been repealed? I don’t think the poster is in the US. American defendants sit with their counsel, not in a prisoner’s dock. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/28 "2023-01-30T20:30:50Z")
Well that, and they are not compelled to testify. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/29 "2023-03-21T07:25:51Z")
# Virginia teacher allegedly shot by 6-year-old student tells NBC she ‘tries to stay positive’ in first interview since shooting > **[Virginia teacher allegedly shot by 6-year-old student tells NBC she ‘tries to...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/20/us/abigail-zwerner-teacher-shooting-newport-news-virginia-nbc/index.html)** > > The first-grade teacher who was allegedly shot by a 6-year-old student in her Newport News, Virginia, classroom has spoken out for the first time since the January incident, saying in an interview with NBC that she has tried to “stay positive.” Note the key word “allegedly”. So is CNN suggesting this was fake news? ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/30 "2023-03-21T07:28:09Z")
It’s pretty standard for news stories to use “allegedly” until there is a conviction or guilty plea. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/31 "2023-03-21T13:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Two days before the shooting, the student allegedly “slammed” and broke Zwerner’s cell phone and cursed at guidance counselors How precocious. Wonder why they didn’t promote him to junior high. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/32 "2023-03-21T13:40:42Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > It’s pretty standard for news stories to use “allegedly” until there is a conviction or guilty plea. This. It’s standard journalistic procedure – not only because the U.S. legal system has a presumption of innocence, but also [to protect themselves against libel lawsuits](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/why-do-journalists-use-words-like-claimed-and-alleged/). Just to note – the “allegedly” in that headline isn’t that the teacher was allegedly shot, but that the shooter was allegedly the six-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/33 "2023-03-21T13:47:40Z")
Came into the thread expecting this to be the newest subtopic of discussion: > **['Another tragic story': 3-year old girl accidentally shoots and kills...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/03/13/3-year-old-child-shoots-4-year-old-sister-houston/11464073002/)** > > A 3-year-old accidentally shot and killed her 4-year-old sibling at their parents' home in what Houston authorities called "a tragic" situation. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/34 "2023-03-21T15:06:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t know about other states, but here in Washington, the answer to the OP is no. > > ### RCW [9A.04.050](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.04.050) > > > ### People capable of committing crimes—Capability of children. > > > > Children under the age of eight years are incapable of committing crime. Children of eight and under twelve years of age are presumed to be incapable of committing crime, but this presumption may be removed by proof that they have sufficient capacity to understand the act or neglect, and to know that it was wrong. Whenever in legal proceedings it becomes necessary to determine the age of a child, he or she may be produced for inspection, to enable the court or jury to determine the age thereby; and the court may also direct his or her examination by one or more physicians, whose opinion shall be competent evidence upon the question of his or her age. I’m surprised if there is not similar law in every state. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/35 "2023-03-21T15:13:16Z")
I watched the interview. She was pretty compelling about the shock and disbelief of it all. She and her lawyer stayed clear of blaming anyone or speculating about who will be prosecuted and for what. As to the OP - the 6 year old pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. I think that much is accepted fact. Did he intend to kill her? She was shot thru the hand and into the upper torso - so he was not necessarily trying to wound her with a leg shot, but who knows - it’s all speculation after the fact. No one can know what was going thru his head at that moment. I think a six-year old knows what death is and how to cause it - stepping on bugs or whatnot. But it will be a legal definition that will decide. As for who is going to be prosecuted - more speculation, but it would seem the weight of justice may fall on the school administration and the parents of the 6 year old. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/36 "2023-03-21T19:54:42Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > As for who is going to be prosecuted - more speculation, but it would seem the weight of justice may fall on the school administration and the parents of the 6 year old. As it should. I’m just surprised if any state considers it possible for a 6 year old to commit a crime or be held responsible for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/37 "2023-03-21T20:39:39Z")
We may not have prosecuted children the physical age of 6 as adults in the US, but we have tried a child with the physical age of 11 and a mental age of seven. > **[Nathaniel Abraham Trial: 1999 | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/law-magazines/nathaniel-abraham-trial-1999)** > > Nathaniel Abraham Trial: 1999 > Defendant: Nathaniel AbrahamCrimes Charged: Murder, assault with intent to murder, and felony use of a firearmChief Defense Lawyer: Geoffrey FiegerChief Prosecutor: Lisa HalushkaJudge: Eugene A. Source for information on... > The boy, these experts testified, had an IQ of 70, and at the time of the murder, his thought processes were like those of a seven-year-old. That said, I think there is zero chance of that happening in this case. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/38 "2023-03-22T02:12:04Z")
The 3 year old killing her 4 year old sister was discussed in the Stupid Guns News thread. > [@Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 2)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-2/958428/917): > > Her. Both involved minors are female. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/39 "2023-03-22T02:23:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I was in Arizona when there was a locally infamous case in St. Johns. An 8 year old killed his dad and his dad’s friend and he ended up pleading guilty to negligent in the death of the friend. > **[Arizona boy who killed father as eight-year-old to return to school](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/17/arizona-boy-who-killed-father-aged-eight-return-school)** > > Boy, now 15, who pleaded guilty to killing father’s friend, judged ready to move to foster home and public school > The boy pleaded guilty to negligent homicide in connection with the death of Tim Romans, 39. Prosecutors dropped a premeditated murder charge over his 29-year-old father’s death in exchange for the plea. Also found this: > **[The epidemiology of homicide perpetration by children](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5306269/)** > > The United States has by far the highest rates of homicide perpetration among high-income countries. The perpetration of homicide by children is often newsworthy, but little is known about the incidence or the circumstances of child homicide ... > We use data from the sixteen states reporting to the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) for all years 2005–2012. We read every violent death report that was classified a homicide with a child suspect (aged 0–14). […] They found twelve instances where a child 10 or younger was a suspect for murder. But they include cases where say, the kid was put in charge of an infant sibling who died under his or her care. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825/40 "2023-03-22T02:39:46Z")
Found one. From way back, but on point. > **[Carl Newton Mahan | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers](https://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mahan-carl-newton.htm)** > > Carl Newton Mahan, 6, was the youngest murder defendant in Kentucky, USA. He was convicted of the death of Cecil Van Hoose, 8, on May 18, 1929. > **[KENTUCKY BOY SILENT ON KILLING PLAYMATE; Father Says Mahan Lad Spoke of If...](https://www.nytimes.com/1929/05/27/archives/kentucky-boy-silent-on-killing-playmate-father-says-mahan-lad-spoke.html)** > > Is silent on killing of playmate ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-six-year-old-commit-murder/977825.md?page=3)