# Can a state pass an act that recognizes the personhood of a fertilized ovum? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257 "2009-10-27T02:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/1 "2009-10-27T02:42:43Z")
That is the intention of [an initiative certified by Alaska Lieutenant Governor Craig E. Campbell](http://www.ltgov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=42) last Thursday. The [proposed language of the bill supplied by the sponsors](http://www.elections.alaska.gov/petitions/09LPHB.pdf) (PDF) is direct and to the point: > [@](#): > > An act recognizing the legal personhood of all human beings including unborn children. > > “Be it enacted by the People of Alaska that all human beings, from the beginning of their biological development as human organisms, including the single cell embryo, regardless of age, health, level of functioning, condition of dependency or method of reproduction, shall be recognized as legal persons in the state of Alaska.” The office of the Lieutenant Governor stated the proposed act would not amend or repeal existing state law regulating abortion, but would likely impact other areas of the law to extend rights prior to birth. I can see where it could be interpreted to limit access to birth control methods that interfere with the implantation of fertilized ovum, which would be persons under this act. I also don’t believe the LG when he says it won’t affect abortion law. With something like this on the books, is it just a matter of time until it is used as a means to limit access to abortion in Alaska. What are the long term ramifications of this act, and have other states passed similar bills? What are the constituional arguments for or against the right of a state to pass such a law? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/2 "2009-10-27T03:11:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What are the long term ramifications of this act, and have other states passed similar bills? What are the constituional arguments for or against the right of a state to pass such a law? Would it mean that someone who tried to get a transplanted embryo basically be committing murder if they gave her 4-5 of the embryos (as is the standard procedure) and only 2 or so took? Can an embryo that attacks it’s womb mate and competes for resources be charged with a crime? This is just a really weird law in my opinion. Not even waiting the 9 months of development… Though then mothers who smoked, dranked, and basically didn’t take care of themselves could also be charged with abuse and neglect of a person. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/3 "2009-10-27T04:29:15Z")
I’d like to see the fetus charged with something like manslaughter or unlawful confinement. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/4 "2009-10-27T05:42:33Z")
Well, corporations are also recognised as legal persons, but nobody who moves to wind up a corporation is charged with assault or murder. INAUSL but, constitutional issues aside, I can’t see the the courts interpreting this in a way which cuts directly accross existing legislation unless absolutely no other intepretation is possible. If the legislature wants to make it an offence to assault an unborn child, the courts will reason, it would do so explicitly. The exact way in which the courts would interpret this Bill must be unclear, subject I suppose to the principle that the only effective interpretation will be those which do not conflict with the State or Federal Constitutions. But I imagine the sponsors of this Bill are more interested in the political effect of its passage than in its legal effect. If they wanted to secure a partiuclar legal outcome, they would have drafted it much more specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/5 "2009-10-27T15:46:08Z")
All miscarriages would have to be investigated as possible murder or foul play. Death certificates would have to be issued as well as conception certificates as well. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/6 "2009-10-27T19:00:21Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > All miscarriages would have to be investigated as possible murder or foul play. I don’t understand this argument, though it comes up often. When an elderly person dies of what seems to be natural causes, we don’t investigate their deaths as a homicide without some concrete suggestion that factors other than the ills of old age caused the death. Why would a natural death of a fetus, which are known to be frail anyway, automatically be investigated without evidence to suggest foul play is a more likely cause when it’s not the case with already born people? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/7 "2009-10-27T19:21:42Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > All miscarriages would have to be investigated as possible murder or foul play. I don’t see why. The government does not investigate a death unless it has good reason to suspect foul play. Ergo, there’s no reason to expect that it would investigate each and every miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/8 "2009-10-27T19:27:03Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I don’t see why. The government does not investigate a death unless it has good reason to suspect foul play. Ergo, there’s no reason to expect that it would investigate each and every miscarriage. But they _could_, right? Get warrants and such for medical records if they have probable cause that a miscarriage wasn’t accidental? What would comprise “probable cause” in cases like this? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/9 "2009-10-27T19:33:06Z")
Would this mean that a child conceived within the state of Alaska, but whose mother moves to another country before it is born, would be a natural-born citizen of state of Alaska? Even though it might not be a citizen of the US (if its parents were not citizens)? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/10 "2009-10-27T19:39:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > But they _could_, right? Get warrants and such for medical records if they have probable cause that a miscarriage wasn’t accidental? They could, just as they could try to investigate the deaths of every single elderly person or hospital patient. The fact that they _could_ does not make this scenario plausible. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What would comprise “probable cause” in cases like this? I’m sure that this would vary from one situation to another, and a legal expert could probably advise us on this matter. The point, however, is that there’s no reason to believe that “All miscarriages would have to be investigated as possible murder or foul play,” as **Icerigger** claimed. Frankly, law enforcement officials have better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/11 "2009-10-27T19:40:19Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Would this mean that a child conceived within the state of Alaska, but whose mother moves to another country before it is born, would be a natural-born citizen of state of Alaska? Even though it might not be a citizen of the US (if its parents were not citizens)? No, because citizenship is established at time of birth rather than at the moment of conception. Citizenship also has nothing to do with one’s humanity, personhood, or right to life. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/12 "2009-10-27T19:42:57Z")
Are there miscarried blastocysts in heaven? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/13 "2009-10-27T19:48:02Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > They could, just as they could try to investigate the deaths of every single elderly person or hospital patient. The fact that they _could_ does not make this scenario plausible. I dunno, an elected official beholden to a pro-life voting bloc could easily go out of his way to make himself famous (and re-electable) by going off on a campaign to “crack down” on abortion. Heck, look at the damage Mike Nifong created. The proposed legislation accomplishes nothing except create a window for potential abuse. > [@](#): > > Frankly, law enforcement officials have better things to do. Then why is this legislation needed at all? What purpose does it serve? Shouldn’t a liberty-minded person favour having a few laws (all of which are useful) over a lot of laws (some of which are useless)? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/14 "2009-10-27T20:00:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Then why is this legislation needed at all? What purpose does it serve? The only purpose I can see it serving is to a. be able to charge women who drink/take drugs during a pregnancy with a crime (there are people who want to do this, though it seems illogical considering it’s not a crime to kill your fetus, so why is it a crime to “abuse” it?) b. make it easier to charge a person with 2 counts of murder/manslaughter for killing a pregnant woman, particularly one whose fetus was of a viable age. B seems both more logical and more just to me than A. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/15 "2009-10-27T20:37:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I dunno, an elected official beholden to a pro-life voting bloc could easily go out of his way to make himself famous (and re-electable) by going off on a campaign to “crack down” on abortion. Cracking down on abortion is not the same thing as investigating each and every miscarriage. Heck, a politician can be tough on murder and other violent crimes without demanding the investigation of each and every death out there. Besides, it doesn’t matter if an elected official wants to take such a stand or not. The reality is that miscarriages are extremely common. Law enforcement officials simply do not have the resources to investigate each and every fetal death. > [@](#): > > Then why is this legislation needed at all? What purpose does it serve? You seem to be under the impression that the only way to protect the unborn would be to investigate each and every miscarriage out there. In logic, that is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle. Such a law would allow courts to prosecute early term abortions, but it does not mean that each and every miscarriage would be investigated – again, for the same reason that murder is outlawed, and yet not every death is treated as possible murder. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/16 "2009-10-27T20:48:38Z")
Any application or extension of such a law that effectively prohibited all abortions would be an unconstitutional infringement of a woman’s Fourth Amendment rights, at least unless/untill Roe and its progeny are overturned. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/17 "2009-10-27T20:51:13Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > No, because citizenship is established at time of birth rather than at the moment of conception. Citizenship also has nothing to do with one’s humanity, personhood, or right to life. If citizenship is established at birth, but personhood begins at conception, then all fetuses in the state of Alaska would be undocumented aliens! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/18 "2009-10-27T20:58:53Z")
The one they’re pushing in Colorado (after losing by a huge margin in 2008) is even more draconian. > [@](#): > > A version of the anti-abortion initiative soundly defeated by Colorado voters in 2008 is making its way to the 2010 ballot, this time reworked as an “egg-as-a-person” initiative. > > This new version would move the legal definition of a person further back into the reproductive cycle, granting cells the full spectrum of citizen rights > > … > > The new amendment is even farther reaching, moving the initial marker for the beginning of life from “fertilization” to “the beginning of the biological development of a human being.” > > Personhood Colorado Director and the initiative proponent Gualberto Garcia Jones told The Colorado Independent that the change was made “to be more comprehensive in our definition of a person” and was not done to make it more appealing to voters. > > “It’s intended to account for human beings who may be created through asexual reproduction in laboratories and used as raw material for research, organs, or stem cells. Fertilization would not have properly applied to asexually reproduced humans, but even asexually reproduced human beings have a definite biological beginning,” Jones explained. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/19 "2009-10-27T21:14:28Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > If citizenship is established at birth, but personhood begins at conception, then all fetuses in the state of Alaska would be undocumented aliens! :eek: And if they are as such we should allow all ‘undocumented aliens’ or else it would be selective enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257/20 "2009-10-28T03:21:25Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Cracking down on abortion is not the same thing as investigating each and every miscarriage. Heck, a politician can be tough on murder and other violent crimes without demanding the investigation of each and every death out there. An overzealous prosecutor doesn’t need to chase “each and every”, he just has to pick out one particular case and abuse the system to keep it and him in the newspapers. Sure, the rights of the individuals involved will get trampled, but I guess it’s omelets and eggs, or something. My point is that this legislation potentially gives prosecutors a new weapon, and sooner or later somebody is going to use it. elfkin477 makes some valid points, and I can see the state interest in not having more FAS babies born, or open season on pregnant woman. Narrow legislation addressing those issues could easily be worthwhile. This omnibus “embryo is a person” idea is overreaching, to put it mildly. > [@](#): > > Besides, it doesn’t matter if an elected official wants to take such a stand or not. The reality is that miscarriages are extremely common. Law enforcement officials simply do not have the resources to investigate each and every fetal death. What happens when one of them asks for more funding, claiming it is needed to protect babies? > [@](#): > > You seem to be under the impression that the only way to protect the unborn would be to investigate each and every miscarriage out there… No, I’m under the impression that given the weight of law, prosecutors will pick the low-hanging fruit and harass OB/GYN clinics out of town, to nobody’s benefit except their own. > [@](#): > > In logic, that is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle. Such a law would allow courts to prosecute early term abortions, but it does not mean that each and every miscarriage would be investigated – again, for the same reason that murder is outlawed, and yet not every death is treated as possible murder. Some people get sent to jail for murders they didn’t commit. How much is this law worth to you, risking as it does that a woman who suffered a miscarriage ends up in jail? And I’m still asking what purpose this law serves. What’s its benefit? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-pass-an-act-that-recognizes-the-personhood-of-a-fertilized-ovum/515257.md?page=2)