# Can a state punish you for doing something that is legal in another state but not in their state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680 "2019-05-08T19:50:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/61 "2019-05-09T20:31:50Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Which is exactly why the district court admonishes State B, and why the legislative and executive branches have the respective honors of making it a federal crime or forcing State B to comply. > > ~Max As of now the Supreme Court has found eyebrow plucking to be legal. That may change but for now the question is what happens when a state makes it illegal to have your eyebrows plucked in another state where it is legal. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/62 "2019-05-09T20:33:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indeed, New York has done that very thing to people whose planes made a unscheduled stop in their city, confiscating the guns, etc. Now, whether or not that arrest and confiscation would hold legal all the way up to SCOTUS, - IANAL. I’ve had more than one discussion about this very issue- and it’s inaccurate to say that NY has done that to people whose planes simply made an unscheduled stop in NYC. They all left the airport with the firearm that they could not legally carry in NY. In every case I’ve found ( either through news reports or court decisions like the one I linked earlier ) the confiscation/arrest happened when people went to the airport to _leave_ the city. In some cases, they were scheduled to fly in and out of NY while spending multiple days in either NY or New Jersey. In others, their flights were diverted or delayed and they retrieved their luggage and spent a night in a hotel. The problem they had is that while they were in NY/NJ whether at a friend/relatives/their own house or a hotel, they were not protected by FOPA - the firearm is not being transported and both the firearm and ammo were readily accessible. Two decisions > **[TORRACO v. PORT AUTHORITY | 539 F.Supp.2d 632 (2008) | p2d63211105 | Leagle.com](https://www.leagle.com/decision/20081171539fsupp2d63211105)** > > MEMORANDUM DECISION AND ORDER COGAN District Judge. The two plaintiffs in this action have alleged claims under 42 U.S.C. 167 ...p2d63211105 > **[092029p.pdf](https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf)** > > 132.49 KB And the Supreme Court denied cert in Revell ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/63 "2019-05-09T22:21:19Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’ve had more than one discussion about this very issue- and it’s inaccurate to say that NY has done that to people whose planes simply made an unscheduled stop in NYC. They all left the airport with the firearm that they could not legally carry in NY. In every case I’ve found ( either through news reports or court decisions like the one I linked earlier ) the confiscation/arrest happened when people went to the airport to _leave_ the city. In some cases, they were scheduled to fly in and out of NY while spending multiple days in either NY or New Jersey. In others, their flights were diverted or delayed and they retrieved their luggage and spent a night in a hotel. The problem they had is that while they were in NY/NJ whether at a friend/relatives/their own house or a hotel, they were not protected by FOPA - the firearm is not being transported and both the firearm and ammo were readily accessible. > Two decisions > > [TORRACO v. PORT AUTHORITY | 539 F.Supp.2d 632 (2008) | p2d63211105 | Leagle.com](https://www.leagle.com/decision/20081171539fsupp2d63211105) > > [http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf](http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf) > And the Supreme Court denied cert in Revell I dont see how Revell had any choice in the matter. He was going from one state to another. But he missed his connecting flight thru no fault of his own. What was he supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/64 "2019-05-09T23:02:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont see how Revell had any choice in the matter. He was going from one state to another. But he missed his connecting flight thru no fault of his own. What was he supposed to do? As the decision said , > [@](#): > > Stranded gun owners > like Revell have the option of going to law enforcement > representatives at an airport or to airport personnel before they > retrieve their luggage. The careful owner will do so and explain his situation, requesting that his firearm and ammunition be held > for him overnight. While this no doubt adds to the > inconvenience imposed upon the unfortunate traveler when his > transportation plans go awry, it offers a reasonable means for a > responsible gun owner to maintain the protection of Section 926 > and prevent unexpected exposure to state and local gun > regulations Which is what I would have done if by some chance I decided to bring along my firearm on personal travel and missed a flight/was diverted to a jurisdiction where I wasn’t certain I could possess my firearm. I don’t think I’ve ever been to an airport without a police presence. ( and some of them even have holding pens) Revell, on the other hand, didn’t even check to see if he could legally possess firearm at his destination in Pennsylvania. Revell didn’t end up being convicted- the charges were dismissed. Torraco’s charges were also dismissed. But these cases were about whether the arrests themselves were legal or whether they were unlawful. And the Federal courts decided they were legal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/65 "2019-05-09T23:46:29Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > As the decision said , > Which is what I would have done if by some chance I decided to bring along my firearm on personal travel and missed a flight/was diverted to a jurisdiction where I wasn’t certain I could possess my firearm. I don’t think I’ve ever been to an airport without a police presence. ( and some of them even have holding pens) Revell, on the other hand, didn’t even check to see if he could legally possess firearm at his destination in Pennsylvania. > > Revell didn’t end up being convicted- the charges were dismissed. Torraco’s charges were also dismissed. But these cases were about whether the arrests themselves were legal or whether they were unlawful. And the Federal courts decided they were legal. No, The courts said there was no basis for damages. Which is not the same thing. And there’s no way I would trust my guns to the Port authority police after they have shown their gross ignorance of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/66 "2019-05-10T00:31:22Z")
Didn’t a state recently pass some law making it Illegal to hunt endangered animals outside the state? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/67 "2019-05-10T00:37:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, The courts said there was no basis for damages. Which is not the same thing. From Torraco > [@](#): > > That assumption, in turn, rests on a further one — that a reasonable police officer would take Mr. Torraco at his word `when he explained that his possession was legal under federal law. However, as discussed above, a police officer who finds someone carrying a gun in New York City, with no documentation, is not legally obligated to simply take the suspect’s word that his possession is legal when New York law says that it is not. If the suspect can offer nothing to confirm his defense to what appears to be a clear violation of New > York law, the officer is entitled to make the arrest and allow a judge or jury to determine the sufficiency of the suspect’s story. > [@](#): > > Plaintiffs have difficulty accepting this because from their perspective, § 926A covered Mr. Torraco with a bulletproof umbrella the moment he crossed the New York border from New Jersey. But a reasonable officer would not, and did not have to, see it from that perspective. Based on Mr. Torraco’s possession of a firearm in a manner that, absent extraneous facts, violated New York law, and Mr. Torraco’s inability to corroborate the facts behind his defense, probable cause existed for the arrest. > [@](#): > > First, since the individual defendants did not violate plaintiffs’ rights, there can be no liability against the Port Authority. See Wray v. City of New York, 490, F.3d 189 (2d Cir.2007). From Revell > [@](#): > > According to Revell, his > arrest was unlawful because he was in compliance with a > provision of the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act (“FOPA”), 18 > U.S.C. § 926A, which allows gun owners licensed in one state > to carry firearms through another state under certain > circumstances. Because we conclude that, at the time of his > arrest, Revell’s conduct did not bring him within the protection > of that statute, we will affirm both the dismissal of his § 926A based claim and the grant of summary judgment to the Port > Authority and Erickson on Revell’s closely related Fourth > Amendment claim. We will likewise affirm the grant of > summary judgment against Revell on his due process claim > under the Fourteenth Amendment > [@](#): > > Accordingly, Revell was > subject to arrest for violating New Jersey’s gun laws. We will > therefore affirm the District Court’s grant of summary judgment > on his Fourth Amendment claim. If “probable cause existed for the arrest” , and “the officer is entitled to make the arrest and allow a judge or jury to determine the sufficiency of the suspect’s story” and “since the individual defendants did not violate plaintiffs’ rights, there can be no liability against the Port Authority” and “Revell was subject to arrest for violating New Jersey’s gun laws” , that’s a lot more than saying there’s no basis for damages. If the arrest were unlawful, someone’s rights would have been violated. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/68 "2019-05-10T02:04:07Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If eyebrows are afforded full human rights and eyebrow-plucking is confirmed by the high court to be a deprivation of constitutional rights, the people of State-A _and_ State-B are liable to the federal conspiracy against rights statute 18 U.S.C. 241 with a fine and up to ten years imprisonment. > > State-A enters the picture if the agreement is made, in part, within the borders of State-A. For example two people could be standing on both sides of the border and committing a conspiracy according to the laws of State-A. State-A could then bring suit in A-court although jurisdiction will probably go to district court. If the person from State-B does this regularly they will have a hard time proving they don’t know or shouldn’t know the laws of State-A; on the other hand, the person from State-A has no excuse. > > ~Max State criminal laws are not enforced by bringing suit, and federal district courts have no role in it whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/69 "2019-05-10T06:08:43Z")
> [@doreen's cite](#): > > Stranded gun owners > like Revell have the option of going to law enforcement > representatives at an airport or to airport personnel before they > retrieve their luggage. The careful owner will do so and explain his situation, requesting that his firearm and ammunition be held > for him overnight. While this no doubt adds to the > inconvenience imposed upon the unfortunate traveler when his > transportation plans go awry, it offers a reasonable means for a > responsible gun owner to maintain the protection of Section 926 > and prevent unexpected exposure to state and local gun > regulations I have a problem with that. That’s one possible action he could have taken, but there is nothing in FOPA that requires such an action and as the court holds that the officers are not required to know the law anyways, a person could find themselves arrested for doing just that. It is inconceivable that the traveler should know the policies of the Port Authority that are unwritten yet at the same time the professionals who are tasked with enforcing the law cannot be bothered to learn it. I think it a basic right that a person should be able to go about their business and conduct themselves in a way that does not subject them to arrest. Planes getting rerouted are a normal part of travel and should not be viewed as some sort of frolic or detour from uninterrupted travel. I also don’t accept this idea that officers cannot be bothered to know gun laws. As the case noted the Port Authority regularly does these types of checks when passengers board with guns. THAT particular officer should familiarize himself with gun laws. If a patrol officer in Buffalo doesn’t know gun laws, then maybe I could understand, but not the Port Authority police who will regularly come into contact with people travelling under FOPA. Further, they don’t need to know the gun laws of all 50 states, but the laws of only those very few in the United States that require a permit or some other document to possess a gun. I agree with the statement that probable cause is all that is needed for an arrest, but I think the sole fact that he has a gun at the airport checking it in should not be enough given the positive right under federal law to possess under these circumstances. Requiring the traveler to show a permit or bill of sale is not required by the law and is an absurd requirement given that nobody carries the bill of sale with their firearm and most states do not issue or require permits to possess. The officer is asking for a unicorn. Given these days of extensive employer background checks and computer databases, it is little comfort that an arrest resulted in a dismissal. He will have to explain that arrest forever, and many employers will treat him like a gun smuggler. No more innocent until proven guilty in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/70 "2019-05-10T12:03:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have a problem with that. That’s one possible action he could have taken, but there is nothing in FOPA that requires such an action and as the court holds that the officers are not required to know the law anyways, a person could find themselves arrested for doing just that. It is inconceivable that the traveler should know the policies of the Port Authority that are unwritten yet at the same time the professionals who are tasked with enforcing the law cannot be bothered to learn it. I would be absolutely floored if a person got arrested for approaching a Port Authority officer and tapped them on the shoulder and explained that they were transporting guns legally but their plane got unexpectedly rerouted, what should they do? IIRC that gives a person positive legal cover. You can’t then be arrested for following the directives law enforcement gave you. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/71 "2019-05-10T14:53:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would be absolutely floored if a person got arrested for approaching a Port Authority officer and tapped them on the shoulder and explained that they were transporting guns legally but their plane got unexpectedly rerouted, what should they do? > > IIRC that gives a person positive legal cover. You can’t then be arrested for following the directives law enforcement gave you. I think the best option is for Congress to amend FOPA to add a section outlining this process for this situation, perhaps with a per-day fee from the aircraft carrier who caused the delay. Alternatively, maybe the FAA, ATF, or TSA could promulgate regulations to that effect - if they can find the authority. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/72 "2019-05-10T15:02:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would be absolutely floored if a person got arrested for approaching a Port Authority officer and tapped them on the shoulder and explained that they were transporting guns legally but their plane got unexpectedly rerouted, what should they do? > > IIRC that gives a person positive legal cover. You can’t then be arrested for following the directives law enforcement gave you. I would not be surprised in the least if the Port Authority officer just arrested the person. They have a person with a gun in New Jersey and no license for it. It’s not the cop’s job to secure travelers’ firearms. FOPA is drafted in many ways more narrowly than it was probably intended. Even in there were a FOPA defense, that would be sorted out later. What would I do in this situation? I would ask the airline to secure the guns and ammo until I completed my journey. I checked the bag through to my final destination and whether they want it to be or not, the bags should be the airline’s responsibility until they are delivered where they and I belong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/73 "2019-05-10T17:22:53Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > It’s not actually clear if driver’s license interstate reciprocity or recognition is actually a matter of “interstate commerce” at all. It isn’t. It’s a matter of comity. A state has the authority to regulate who can drive on its roads. Federal law requires states to recognize each others’ commercial drivers’ licenses, but a state could permissibly require any noncommercial driver to meet its own licensing requirements. They don’t because it would be terrible for business. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/74 "2019-05-10T19:01:29Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > The linked Slate article mentions that the law in question makes fetuses full individual people, and in doing so raises a huge issue: any woman who’s pregnant and in jail is carrying a full legal person inside of her, so by putting her in jail they’re imprisoning one wholly innocent person along with another, potentially non-innocent person—and without due process for the fetus. > > I suspect this law wasn’t fully thought through on a number of levels. Again, I invite any lurking constitutional scholars (I’m looking at you, President Obama!) to weigh in on the commerce-clause issue I and others have asked about. I wonder, then, if any Georgia woman who has a miscarriage after 6 weeks becomes a murder suspect. If a pregnant Georgia woman drinks a glass of wine or, heaven forbid, smokes a cigarette can she be prosecuted for reckless endangerment? ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/75 "2019-05-10T22:27:00Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth;21634191\ And there’s no way I would trust my guns to the Port authority police after they have shown their gross ignorance of the law.[/QUOTE] I guess your other option is to sit in the airport terminal all night guarding your luggage. So you do have options. Courts generally don’t look at law enforcement as having a gross ignorance of the law and so I don’t think that defense would work in court. But you are free to try-in some sense of the word free. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/76 "2019-05-11T12:13:24Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > I guess your other option is to sit in the airport terminal all night guarding your luggage. So you do have options. Courts generally don’t look at law enforcement as having a gross ignorance of the law and so I don’t think that defense would work in court. But you are free to try-in some sense of the word free. Or not claim your luggage. Presumably it was tagged straight through. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/77 "2019-05-11T21:03:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would be absolutely floored if a person got arrested for approaching a Port Authority officer and tapped them on the shoulder and explained that they were transporting guns legally but their plane got unexpectedly rerouted, what should they do? > > IIRC that gives a person positive legal cover. You can’t then be arrested for following the directives law enforcement gave you. Why? The same dance could happen. You now have a gun in New Jersey without a New Jersey permit. Oh, you are traveling under FOPA, you say? Do you have a bill of sale or a permit from Vermont? Vermont doesn’t issue or require permits, you say, but I don’t know that. I had better arrest you and you can tell it to the judge. Also, presumably you need your bag with your clothes, toiletries, and medication in it. Pack a carry on with those items? Again, nothing in FOPA requires that. Police in these states keep adding new requirements to FOPA. The court also mentioned that the one traveler was in violation of FOPA for visiting a relative (a “social visit” they called it), but that seems an absurd exception. If I am driving from Ohio to New Hampshire where I can legally own guns in both places, and drive through New Jersey (didn’t read a map so bear with me) I am okay, but if I stop to see my mother for a few hours then that makes my transit so much more dangerous to the good people of New Jersey that I have to leave my gun at home? Makes no sense at all. What if it was 10pm and I was tired and wanted to stop at a hotel in New Jersey? Violation? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/78 "2019-05-11T21:26:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why? It is my understanding that if you follow the directives of law enforcement you cannot be prosecuted for following those directions. So, unless you think you will be arrested for even asking local law enforcement (which is, frankly, crazy) you should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/79 "2019-05-11T22:27:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is my understanding that if you follow the directives of law enforcement you cannot be prosecuted for following those directions. > > So, unless you think you will be arrested for even asking local law enforcement (which is, frankly, crazy) you should be fine. Passenger: Excuse me, officer. I have a gun in my checked baggage [explain unintentional rerouting of flight]. I would like to be in compliance with the law and I was wondering if you could hold my gun for me overnight until I catch my flight in the morning or otherwise advise me how to proceed. Officer: I see. So you have a gun in your baggage here in New York. May I see your New York State Pistol Possession License? Passenger: I don’t have one. I am not from New York, see I am travelling under the protection of FOPA. I live in Arizona and was travelling to Florida, places where it is both legal to have a gun without a permit. Officer: One second, sir. Let me get my supervisor. Supervisor: Hello, sir. May I see your New York Pistol Possession License? Passenger: As I was telling this fine officer [repeat story]. Supervisor: Sir, do you have proof that you have never been convicted of a felony in your life? Passenger: I have never been convicted of a felony. Supervisor: So I am just supposed to take your word for it? Tell it to the judge. Hands behind your back. * * * Is that “crazy”? Perhaps, but no more crazy that arresting a guy at the airport who is following the procedure for checking a gun and not being bothered enough to know the law. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680/80 "2019-05-11T22:48:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why? The same dance could happen. You now have a gun in New Jersey without a New Jersey permit. Oh, you are traveling under FOPA, you say? Do you have a bill of sale or a permit from Vermont? Vermont doesn’t issue or require permits, you say, but I don’t know that. I had better arrest you and you can tell it to the judge. > > Also, presumably you need your bag with your clothes, toiletries, and medication in it. Pack a carry on with those items? Again, nothing in FOPA requires that. Police in these states keep adding new requirements to FOPA. > > The court also mentioned that the one traveler was in violation of FOPA for visiting a relative (a “social visit” they called it), but that seems an absurd exception. If I am driving from Ohio to New Hampshire where I can legally own guns in both places, and drive through New Jersey (didn’t read a map so bear with me) I am okay, but if I stop to see my mother for a few hours then that makes my transit so much more dangerous to the good people of New Jersey that I have to leave my gun at home? Makes no sense at all. > > What if it was 10pm and I was tired and wanted to stop at a hotel in New Jersey? Violation? I do not disagree at all that the whole thing is absurd- however, that’s the fault of the people who wrote FOPA, not the judges and cops. And the problem is not that your stop to see your mother makes your transit “so much more dangerous to the good people of New Jersey that I have to leave my gun at home”. The problem is that courts deciding in any way other than the way these ones go means that no state can enforce their gun laws. When I am stopped with a gun that I am not permitted to carry in New York , I can simply claim that I was driving from Ohio to New Hampshire , both places where I can legally possess a firearm \*even if in fact I live in NY \* and the firearm has always been with me in NY and the only connection I have to Ohio and New Hampshire is that I could legally possess a firearm in those places. Because, after all, I don’t need to show the police any paperwork regarding the legality of my possession in Ohio or New Hampshire. FOPA doesn’t say I have to be a resident of either the state of origin or the destination state, so the fact that my ID gives a NY address doesn’t matter. There are really only two ways to interpret the law as it’s currently written. Either strictly - which means that once I have retrieved it from the airline and am no longer in the situation where FOPA \* applies ,there is probable cause to believe I am in violation of the NY or NJ laws that prohibit me from possessing a firearm. Or alternatively, it can be interpreted to require the cops at the airline counter or on the side of the road to only arrest people if they know for certain that they can’t legally possess the firearm in one of those states ( which requires those cops to know the firearms laws of all 50 states plus other US territories and also the laws of individual counties or municipalities which may be more restrictive - for example, a NYS pistol license isn’t valid in NYC ). Which essentially means that all state permit laws go out the window. The “social visit” thing was a little confusing - but it was just an illustration of the problems with the law, not really a basis for the decision. Torraco was in NY as part of his travel from NJ to Florida. He claimed to be legally able to possess his firearm in both NJ and Florida - but according to NJ law , a gun owner may keep a firearm at his business or residence. Torraco neither owned nor resided at his mother’s house and the defendants argued that since his possession at his mother’s house was in violation of NJ law, he was not entitled to protection under FOPA. - Even you take the position that an overnight stay doesn’t mean you are no longer transporting the firearm , there is still the issue of accessibility. Once you solve that, there is the issue of how long does the stay have to be before the transportation has ended - a few hours, overnight, a week, a month? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-state-punish-you-for-doing-something-that-is-legal-in-another-state-but-not-in-their-state/833680.md?page=5)