# Can a submarine do a barrel roll? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807 "2010-08-20T00:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/21 "2010-08-20T14:33:39Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > It makes sense that a submarine couldn’t do a barrel roll on purpose. But what about by accident? If a submarine surfaced during very rough weather, broadside to the waves, could they impart enough energy to essentially capsize the sub? And could this momentum carry the submarine through a full roll? It’s conceivable that this could happen, but unlikely. Maybe if a submarine got hit by a [rogue wave](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave)? In any event, I think I’d rather try it on a submarine than a surface ship, though. 😉 One problem with a surfaced submarine capsizing and righting itself is that the ballast tanks will start to fill with seawater as soon as the sub is inverted. The power plant is also going to be out of commission, for the reasons mentioned by **minor7flat5**. In addition, the reactor would automatically scram out and shut itself down. Still, assuming the sub rights itself, the situation is probably survivable. However, if any hatches were open when the surfaced submarine capsized, there’s a good chance you’d flood out the whole ship, resulting in the loss of the sub. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/22 "2010-08-20T15:02:09Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Oh yes… I can’t imagine any electrical/electronic equipment would take too kindly to bilge water flying all over the place (do submarines have water in the bilges?). The critical electronics on a sub should be water proof, at least the spec for equipment on type-209 boats calls for operation in water. I worked on the technical manual for the electronic warfare console on South Africa’s new subs. While on site to take photographs I noticed that they had a flat panel display \*running \*while submerged in a salt water tank. The engineers were less than amused when I pointed out that while the ECW console could operate underwater, the crew could not. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/23 "2010-08-20T20:32:00Z")
Steam generators and condensate hotwells\*, ballast tanks, and control surfaces have been addressed to some degree or another already. Batteries need a bit more detail, though. The vast majority of all submarine storage batteries use a liquid electrolyte. They also have vent caps to disperse hydrogen and/or other gas buildup, which caps are readily removable to take specific gravity readings. Turn those batteries upside down at your peril! :eek: Hundreds and hundreds of gallons of electrolyte coursing over the busbars in the battery well are NOT my idea of a good time! First, it’s acid. Sulphuric acid. Destructive stuff, and hard on the gear and lungs! Second, well, the amount of arcing and sparking resulting are going to do _horribnle_ things to your electrical distribution system… Not to mention likely starting fires. Fires are Bad Events on submarines! Lastly, on board my last boat, each cell weighed in excess of 1000bm (dry). The cells are not locked down - their weight keeps them very nicely at the bottom of teh battery well, thankyouverymuch. They _are_ wedged to prevent shifting, but that will _not_ prevent them from coming adrift if you turn the well upside down! 100,000 pounds or more of loose batteries smashing into the overhead of the battery well is not my idea of an event I wish to experience. IRT electrical and electronic equipment: Most of it is _spray_ tight, or spray _resistant_. Making it watertight, inside the people tank, generally means overheating - how are you going to vent and cool sealed systems? _Some_\*\* systems are completely watertight (and have complicated cooling arrangements), but most are not - this most certainly includes the electrical distribution gear. Turn a spray resistant or spray proof box upside down, and suddenly it is no longer ‘proof’ or ‘resistant.’ \*Turn a hotwell or steam generator upside down, and you get solid water in your turbines. A _very_ Bad Idea. \*\*Navigation, communications, and weapons controls mostly, though some Reactor Control equipment is also water-tight. Tranq Qualified in submarines (Sturgeon class) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/24 "2010-08-20T20:41:28Z")
IRT to wave conditions rolling a boat: I’ve been on the surface in sea state 7 (very unpleasnt) and 8 (dang nasty)\*. No, there was no risk of the boat going over - just lots and lots of bags of puke accompanying watchstanders being relieved. Among other things, once the sail hits solid surface water, the rotating moment is gone, and there is no longer a force to compete with the righting moment of the keel. In order to take the boat all the way over, the force on the sail would have to continue to follow the sail around as the hull rotated - In short, it would eventually need to _reverse_ itself. Short of surfing God’s own breaker and catching a tube, this isn’t going to happen. \*In worse sea states, you turn around and go back out to submerge. Actually, if we hadn’t been trying to transfer an injured sailor, we’d have never stayed up in 7 and 8, either. Been there, done that, puked in the bag. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/25 "2010-08-20T22:58:23Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Or treadmill, I should say. Submarine on a treadmill! Sorry. That’ll never fly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/26 "2010-08-20T23:51:04Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Tranq > Qualified in submarines (Sturgeon class) Which Sturgeon class were you on? mrAru was on the Spadefish =) ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/27 "2010-08-21T00:35:50Z")
Another point to consider is that if a military submarine somehow does a tumble the only members of the crew that wouldn’t be casualties might be some of those who fell on other members of the crew. You’d also have torpedoes rattling around up front. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/28 "2010-08-21T10:00:07Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > > [@Tranquilis](#): > > > > Tranq > > Qualified in submarines (Sturgeon class) > > Which Sturgeon class were you on? mrAru was on the Spadefish =) The Dickfish. 😃 AKA Richard B. Russell (SSN 687). Also spent a short time on the old Seawolf (SSN 575) whilst waiting for my DEVGRU ONE clearances to come back. @ **Kilmore** : Most likely, the torpedoes would not be rattling around. They’re locked down pretty tightly when not being moved - Having several thousand pounds of weapon full of PBX and Otto Fuel II thrashing about is another Bad Thing, and could plausibly happen in high sea states, even without aquabatic manuvering, so the the weapons are well-secured. But penty of other miscellany _would_ be flying about. “Stow for sea” on a submarine is _very_ thorough, but is NOT intended to handle ‘upside down.’ Tool chests, books, pots and pans, and all manner of other things (yes, including crew members, as suggested above!) would come adrift. But the most serious casualty of all would certainly be the coffee mess. Without that, _ **no** _ boat can function for long! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/29 "2010-08-21T23:37:57Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > > [@aruvqan](#): > > > > Which Sturgeon class were you on? mrAru was on the Spadefish =) > > The Dickfish. 😃 AKA Richard B. Russell (SSN 687). Also spent a short time on the old Seawolf (SSN 575) whilst waiting for my DEVGRU ONE clearances to come back. > > @ **Kilmore** : Most likely, the torpedoes would not be rattling around. They’re locked down pretty tightly when not being moved - Having several thousand pounds of weapon full of PBX and Otto Fuel II thrashing about is another Bad Thing, and could plausibly happen in high sea states, even without aquabatic manuvering, so the the weapons are well-secured. But penty of other miscellany _would_ be flying about. “Stow for sea” on a submarine is _very_ thorough, but is NOT intended to handle ‘upside down.’ Tool chests, books, pots and pans, and all manner of other things (yes, including crew members, as suggested above!) would come adrift. But the most serious casualty of all would certainly be the coffee mess. Without that, _ **no** _ boat can function for long! 😃 Yeah, I remember being in the dry goods locker up front while Citadel Military Academy cadets took the James Monroe for “angles and dangles”, and the time I saved the teriyaki dinner. I figured the torpedoes were well clamped down, but I don’t know how they’d handle submersible gymnastics. I’m pretty sure the Tridents on a boomer would get pretty well smashed up. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/30 "2010-08-22T00:02:19Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …Still, assuming the sub rights itself, the situation is probably survivable. > [@Tranquilis](#): > > …Batteries need a bit more detail, though. The vast majority of all submarine storage batteries use a liquid electrolyte. They also have vent caps to disperse hydrogen and/or other gas buildup, which caps are readily removable to take specific gravity readings. > > Turn those batteries upside down at your peril! :eek: Hundreds and hundreds of gallons of electrolyte coursing over the busbars in the battery well are NOT my idea of a good time! First, it’s acid. Sulphuric acid. Destructive stuff, and hard on the gear and lungs! Second, well, the amount of arcing and sparking resulting are going to do _horribnle_ things to your electrical distribution system… Not to mention likely starting fires. Fires are Bad Events on submarines! Lastly, on board my last boat, each cell weighed in excess of 1000bm (dry). The cells are not locked down - their weight keeps them very nicely at the bottom of teh battery well, thankyouverymuch. They _are_ wedged to prevent shifting, but that will _not_ prevent them from coming adrift if you turn the well upside down! 100,000 pounds or more of loose batteries smashing into the overhead of the battery well is not my idea of an event I wish to experience. Good point, **Tranq**. Let me rephrase–“probably survivable,” assuming you can put out the battery fire. 😉 I was wondering if the vent caps/spark arrestors would hold in the electrolyte or not. I guess you think the answer is “not.” I was not aware that the cells are not locked down. They seemed pretty secure, but then again, I’ve only seen them in normal, right-side-up condition. Lord knows I spent enough time crawling on top of them for battery charging line-ups. ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/31 "2010-08-22T00:12:22Z")
At any rate once the submarine flips the patrol is over. Too much stuff is busted up and the crew is mostly dead and injured. I’d imagine they’d rescue whoever they would with destroyers and helicopters, and try to tow it back or scuttle it if it is too far damaged. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807/32 "2010-08-22T00:40:10Z")
> [@Kilmore](#): > > Yeah, I remember being in the dry goods locker up front while Citadel Military Academy cadets took the James Monroe for “angles and dangles”, and the time I saved the teriyaki dinner. I figured the torpedoes were well clamped down, but I don’t know how they’d handle submersible gymnastics. I was blue crew 80 - 82 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-submarine-do-a-barrel-roll/550807.md?page=1)