# Can a suspect be forced to give a semen sample at part of an investigation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955 "2006-12-29T05:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/1 "2006-12-29T05:14:13Z")
Is there even any reason the police would actually _need_ a semen sample? šŸ˜• Couldnā€™t they just compare the DNA from a blood sample with semen found on a victim? Would collection need to be witnessed (as with a drug test)? I think I remember a reference on one of the Law & Orders. With a warrent a suspect may be forced to give hair and blood samples, fingerprints, have photographs taken of their genitalia, etc. ---
**Author:** ![feppytweed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feppytweed/32/4280_2.png) [@feppytweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feppytweed)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/2 "2006-12-29T05:42:49Z")
IANAL but I think a warrant can be issued for _ahem_ bodily fluids of various descriptions. And I am sure there are ways of going about maintaining the legitimacy of said specimen. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/3 "2006-12-29T05:45:13Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] ā€¦ have photographs taken of their genitalia, etc. [/QUOTE] Presumably, if the suspect goes on the run, the police circulate _Wanted_ posters to better facilitate recapture. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/4 "2006-12-29T05:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] Presumably, if the suspect goes on the run, the police circulate _Wanted_ posters to better facilitate recapture. [/QUOTE] When someoneā€™s accused of a sex crime itā€™s SOP to take photos of more their private regions to compare the the victimā€™s descriptions. BTW are their any other ways of obtaining semen without the subject needing to masturbate or ejaculate? Forcing a subject to do either against his will seems like it be a sex crime in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/5 "2006-12-29T05:58:55Z")
Why would an investigator want semen? Canā€™t they get the same information from a cheek swab? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/6 "2006-12-29T06:10:06Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] When someoneā€™s accused of a sex crime itā€™s SOP to take photos of more their private regions to compare the the victimā€™s descriptions. [/quote] Understandable and logical. I did find a cite for this (Debra Lafave) but I was still surprised. Iā€™m not sure this happens in the UK though. Hopefully someone will confirm one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/7 "2006-12-29T19:38:25Z")
I have by no means done an exhaustive search, but I have found no indication that the accused will have to provide a semen sample as part of the legal proceedings. Samples may be collected off the victim in ways that vary state to state (and are not always pretty to talk about). The accused may have blood drawn for DNA samples and testing for HIV or other STDā€™s, saliva may even be taken. I donā€™t really know why a semen sample would even be necessacary. Sgt Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/8 "2006-12-29T21:11:28Z")
Iā€™m pretty sure a swab can be and is used to get a DNA match. The DNA in semen is the same as DNA in blood/saliva (okay technically thereā€™s only half of it but an exact match of half of someoneā€™s DNA is statistically as significant as a full match). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/9 "2006-12-29T21:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Why would an investigator want semen? Canā€™t they get the same information from a cheek swab? [/QUOTE] Thatā€™d depend on how soon afterward the cheeks were swabbed, and what kind of rinse was used, Iā€™d suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/10 "2006-12-29T21:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] Thatā€™d depend on how soon afterward the cheeks were swabbed, and what kind of rinse was used, Iā€™d suspect. [/QUOTE] I was going to say ā€œit depends whose cheek gets swabbedā€ but yours is better. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/11 "2006-12-29T21:29:24Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] The DNA in semen is the same as DNA in blood/saliva. [/QUOTE] Well, for the vast majority, yes this is true. But there is a genetic disease (I know the ā€˜off-handā€™ term is chimera, but there has to be a better medical term,) where a person has different DNA at different spots in their body (of course, this is mostly from a Law and Order episode, so it might not be entirely like that.) I also recall an L&O ep. where they didnā€™t have enough time for a full DNA match, or something, but they did notice the subjects sperm in the sample from the rape kit was unusually low, so they had their two prime subjects give a semen sample to compare their sperm counts. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/12 "2006-12-29T21:33:56Z")
Hmmm - do we have any CSI writers online who can give us the definitive answer? šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/13 "2006-12-29T21:48:50Z")
I couldnā€™t think of a hypo where a semen sample would be needed that a buccal swab wouldnā€™t be sufficient to collect DNA, so I called over to the DAā€™s office and asked a pal over there his opinion. His off the cuff answer was that he would expect that a judge would likely have the authority to issue such a warrant, but couldnā€™t think of any reason to do so either except a few hypos where the person might wish to do so voluntarily. I donā€™t know, see some collection problems. I wouldnā€™t want to be the deputy serving _that_ search warrant! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/14 "2006-12-29T22:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] ā€¦t that a judge would likely have the authority to issue such a warrant, but couldnā€™t think of any reason to do so either except a few hypos where the person might wish to do so voluntarilyā€¦ [/QUOTE] So the government can order a person to masturbate against their will :eek: ? Iā€™d love to see a defence attorneyā€™s challenge to that warrent! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/15 "2006-12-29T22:28:00Z")
Like I said, I can see some collection and enforcement problems. I have no idea how youā€™d go about taking a semen sample from an unwilling donorā€¦maybe test his shower grate. At any rate, neither of us could think of a reason why it would be necessary. We have an interesting case here in Texas where a judge has issued a warrant to have a bullet lodged in a teenagerā€™s forehead out so they can test the ballistics and see if he was involved in an attempted murder. The warrant is being challenged and itā€™s unlikely that the state will be able to find surgeons willing to do it even if the warrant is ruled valid. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/16 "2006-12-29T22:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] So the government can order a person to masturbate against their will :eek: ? Iā€™d love to see a defence attorneyā€™s challenge to that warrent! [/QUOTE] And in the end it was true - alphaboi867 really _did_ love Big Brotherā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/17 "2006-12-29T22:36:37Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] Thatā€™d depend on how soon afterward the cheeks were swabbed, and what kind of rinse was used, Iā€™d suspect. [/QUOTE] [Itā€™s been done.](http://www.nypost.com/seven/09232006/news/regionalnews/mouths_agape_over_dwi_suspects_dna_swab_regionalnews_kieran_crowley.htm) > [@](#): > > September 23, 2006 ā€“ A court-ordered DNA swab test of Long Island DWI murder defendant Martin Heidgen found a second manā€™s DNA inside Heidgenā€™s mouth - causing a prosecutor to charge that Heidgen tried to foil the test designed to connect him to blood in the double murder case. > [ā€¦] > ā€œWe have some reason to believe that some substances can remain in a personā€™s mouth for 24 hours, if they have been in the mouth for a substantial period of time,ā€ said McCormick. ā€œSomehow,ā€ this guy got another inmateā€™s blood, semen or saliva into his mouth to try to beat the DNA test. ---
**Author:** ![schacman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@schacman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schacman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/18 "2006-12-30T05:37:48Z")
From a Canadian legal perspective (human rights jurisprudence is not too different from the US) you would definitely have a hard time getting such a sample authorized. Courts have always been reticent about forcing someone to do anything to their bodies (even blood samples were refused outside of the gravest circumstances) because it is a violation of the person. The general view is that 1 - specimens should only be taken from a person if absolutely necessary and 2- such sample should violate the personā€™s rights in the least possible way. Thus, for a sperm sample, there would have to be a VERY good reason (i.e. necessary to prove a rape or murder) and that the same information could not be obtained by a simple DNA test. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/19 "2006-12-30T05:52:17Z")
Iā€™d like to know what happens if the person refuses. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955/20 "2006-12-30T06:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Why would an investigator want semen? Canā€™t they get the same information from a cheek swab? [/QUOTE] Taste test? _Iā€™m going to hell_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-suspect-be-forced-to-give-a-semen-sample-at-part-of-an-investigation/385955.md?page=2)