The border search exception predates the Patriot Act by a long, long way. From Boyd v. United States (1886):
In other words, the Founding Fathers didn’t have a problem with people being stopped and searched at the border.
Till at least the late 19th century, border control in most places meant control of the passage of goods, not people. Restrictions on individuals were very limited.Th eordinary individual who could afford passage for the most part could travel anywhere he wanted to. Indeed the case cited deals with the movement of goods. So not a good example.
I believe such things fall under implied consent.
No. The exception to the Fourth Amendment for border searches is a tad bit older than the Patriot Act.
It was originally enacted by the very first Congress, in 1789. (“Act of July 31,” 1789, ch.5 §§23-24, 1 Stat. 29, 43).
It’s been considered and upheld many times before September 11, 2001. Would you like the case citations?
ETA: Or, what Mike S said.
Also, cops and border guards can ask any question they like.
That doesn’t mean you are legally obligated to answer. But they have ways of making your life difficult if you don’t answer, and they know that many people are under the impression that you are obligated to answer questions by the cops.
If you felt like it, you could just say, “None of your business” to the snoopy border guard. And then the snoopy border guard could decide to search your car, because they don’t need probable cause to search your car at the border crossing. And after they search your car, examine your passport again, check their computer, run your plates, wonder if they should annoy the K9 team with a probably unprofitable sniff search request, and fume, and frown, they’ll let you go.
Up to you whether getting your car searched–which the border guard has a perfect legal right to do–is worth telling the guard you don’t feel like answering questions, so let me back into my own country.
Your guys ain’t much better.
A few years ago my brother and I were going to New Brunswick to visit with cousins for a long weekend. Crossing at Houlton, ME to Woodstock, NB. We were asked to come inside and were separated. We compared notes later and we got the same questions:
CBP: You and your passenger claim to be brothers.
Me: Yes.
CBP: Yet you both gave different addresses in the same city as your residence.
Me: Yes.
CBP: What do you mean yes?!
Me: We live in different places.
CBP: How can you be brothers, then?!
We were in our thirties at the time.
Obviously I have no way of knowing what that agent’s IQ was, but obfuscating stupidity is something that some of us use as a way of verifying information. If I suspect someone is trying to get around a rule at work (biggest example: trying to get on the internet computers with someone else’s card), I will sometimes misquote part of their personal information to them to see if they correct me.
Me: “And your birthday is July 31, 1985?” (date on card is April 13, 1985)
Them: “Yes.” (thinking all I care about is the year)
Me: “So your birthday is today?”
Them: “What? No.”
Me: “You just told me that your birthday is July 31, 1985. Today is July 31. Are you sure this is your card?”
I always get annoyed at the Canadian border folks asking me questions like this when I travel back to Canada from the US. (I’m Canadian.) There’s been a couple of times when I probably pushed the envelope, but it felt good to release my inner civil libertarian.
I was once asked coming back to Canada from the US where I was traveling to now (i.e., in Canada). I smiled and said, seeing as I’m a citizen, wherever I want to.
Another time I had traveled from Toronto to Montreal to New York and back to Toronto on business. I’m not sure why it came up, but the Canadian border lady on my trip back to Toronto asked why I went to Montreal first. I said seeing as it’s within the country, I wasn’t sure why it was important to her. Got away with that one too! 
Yeah, when I read both that exchange and Fleetwood’s exchange, I just assumed it was a purposefully stupid question to see if the interviewee trips up in some way.
Mind if I borrow that?
Well, anyone is allowed to ask whatever they want. They question is if you are required to answer or comply.
There are a number of YouTube clips where various individuals go out of there way to be test the Border Patrol. Typically it goes something like this:
BP asks typical BP questions. “Are you a US citizen?”. “Where are you going?”
Driver sits there silently refusing to answer.
BP repeats.
“Please turn the camera off.”
Driver says “no, I would rather not”.
More questions.
Driver simply, but politely provides responses like:
“Something something Fourth Amendment I don’t have to answer you.”
“Am I being detained?”
“Do you have probably cause that I am not an America citizen?”
“No you do not have my permission to enter the vehicle.”
“Am I free to go?”
Goes back and forth until BP calls supervisor.
“Ere now wots all this?”
Repeats
This may go back and forth again for a bit, but eventually the BP lets the driver go on his way.
IANAL though, so it could just be the BP are like “Screw it. This idiot isn’t an illegal and I don’t feel like dealing with the paperwork to detain and ultimately release a US citizen just for being annoying.”
Why would you even want to fuck around with a boarder guard. Answer the fucking questions. I mean really, so what if you have to disclose where you’ve been and where you’re going?
Honest to God, some people are just dicks.
Dude. Your own nation’s border patrol only should care about the following:
A) are you citizen of the country?
B) do you owe any duties or taxes?
Otherwise, it just ain’t their concern. It’s not being a dick to keep people in authority from over-reaching. Sheesh.
Overreaching? They’re just doing their job. Unless you have something to hide is there any compelling reason why you just wouldn’t cooperate. Unless you’re a dick, of course.
I was stopped at a (what seemed to be at least semi-permanent) Border Patrol checkpoint when travelling in West Texas near Big Bend National Park a couple of years ago - guys with guns and dogs asking us (US citizens traveling within the US, we had at no point crossed the border, which was some miles away) where we lived, where we were going, for what purpose, etc.
I think most of those aren’t on the border, though, but rather the internal checkpoints. The ones that are constitutionally vague.
I was unaware that it was the job of the border patrol to monitor the internal movements of their own country’s citizens. Ignorance fought. :rolleyes:
Anyway, I may or may not be a dick, but I’m not the one insulting those with conflicting viewpoints on the matter.
The border of my country is concerned about a whole lot more than that.
Of what country are you a citizen?
Are you legally entitled to cross the border?
Are you using the border crossing to engage in some sort of commercial activity that contravenes regulations (laundering money, avoiding taxes and duties)
Are you presenting a biosecurity risk?
Are you crossing the border for the purpose of engaging in some kind of criminal activity?
Are you carrying illegal substances such as certain weapons or drugs?
Do you, because of your criminal past present a definable risk to the population of the country?
Are you because of your financial position (ie, carrying no cash) likely to be a burden to the country?
Do you have intent to stay longer than you are legally entitled?
They will need to ask a range of questions to establish these things. And even if I am a citizen of the country, I would expect to be asked some of these questions.
Answer the question. Then ask why you are being asked if there are any issues. If they are pursuing a line of questioning without having given you an adequate explanation, that probably is a serious matter. But I would submit that that scenario is rather rare – if you have asked.
Be compliant. Be cooperative. Be friendly. Ask them questions if you have any concerns. Let them do their job. Let them send you through quickly.
Moderator NOTE
Leaffan. That’s a backhanded way of calling a poster a dick. Don’t EVER do that again outside the Pit.
samclem, moderator
They’re obviously asking questions that are pertinent to their position as a boarder guard, and yes that includes where you’ve been and where you are going.
I don’t get the mentality of some people who wish to obfuscate the process.
There have been threads here before about people who refuse to show their receipts, when questioned, on the way out of Walmart, for example. I don’t get it.
I don’t get the anti-authority attitude and the reason to want to second-guess constitutional and amendment rights as they apply to law-abiding citizens just going about their everyday activities.
That’s a whole lot of tinfoil hat wearing paranoia, if you ask me.
Answer the damned questions and move on. Show the damned receipt and move on. You’re not impressing anyone with your grandstanding.