# Can African lions and elephants survive an American mid-west winter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505 "2005-08-18T00:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/1 "2005-08-18T00:26:36Z")
Just curious [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/)[Elephants, lions to roam North America again? Plan to reintroduce large mammals, ecological history parks](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/) > [@](#): > > Cheetahs, lions, camels and elephants would roam wild in the United States under a new proposal to re-introduce large animals similar to those that humans hunted to extinction long ago. > > The U.S. Ecological History Park, as it is billed by scientists, would help preserve species that are under increasing pressure for survival in Africa. It would also re-create a more balanced predator-prey relationship in the Great Plains and Southwest, an ecological diversity that has been absent for more than 10,000 years thanks at least in part to hunting pressure. > > The idea, similar to one already under way in Siberia, is laid out in Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature by a dozen ecologists and conservationists at 10 universities and institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/2 "2005-08-18T02:34:39Z")
Lions were in North America during the Ice Age, so cold winters couldn’t have been a problem. > [@Encyclopedia Britannica](#): > > During the Pleistocene Epoch (1,800,000 to 10,000 years ago), lions ranged across all of North America and Africa, through most of the Balkans, and across Anatolia and the Middle East into India. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/3 "2005-08-24T20:04:43Z")
I think the idea of a “Pleistocene Park” on the American prairie is a great idea. Now if only we can get some sabertooth DNA… ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/4 "2005-08-24T20:25:55Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#): > > I think the idea of a “Pleistocene Park” on the American prairie is a great idea. Now if only we can get some sabertooth DNA… Bah. We need dino DNA. And cowboys. Lots of cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/5 "2005-08-24T20:27:08Z")
BIIGGG Cowboys. With laser eyes. Feh. I’ll settle for someone getting busy with a mammoth. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/6 "2005-08-24T20:39:20Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > I’ll settle for someone getting busy with a mammoth. Way a head of ya’ buddy. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/7 "2005-08-24T20:43:38Z")
I like the idea, but if ranchers don’t like it when we reintroduce wolves, how are they going to feel about lions, tigers & elephants? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/8 "2005-08-24T21:05:39Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I like the idea, but if ranchers don’t like it when we reintroduce wolves, how are they going to feel about lions, tigers & elephants? Solution: breed more aggressive, dangerous cows. “Don’t get too near Bessie … she’ll kill you soon’s look at you.” ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/9 "2005-08-24T21:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Solution: breed more aggressive, dangerous cows. This has been attempted, trying to back-breed modern cattle to get something resembling an aurochs, but they’re not big enough, and besides, I don’t think they were ever native to North America. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/10 "2005-08-24T21:31:33Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#): > > Lions were in North America during the Ice Age, so cold winters couldn’t have been a problem. The lions that occurred in North America and northern Eurasia are sometimes considered subspecies of the modern lion, and sometimes as different species. Whatever the case, although closely related they were not exactly the same as the modern African lion. Zoo lions are able to spend time out of doors during North American winters, but I am not sure how well they would do in a prolonged Great Plains blizzard. Although various species of elephants existed in the Americas in the Pleistocene, they were in different genera from the modern African and Asian elephants, so it’s not easily predictable how the latter would do. Likewise I believe that North American cheetahs were a different species than the present African/Asian cheetah. Camels shouldn’t be a problem, since Bactrian (two-humped) camels presently live in Central Asia in areas that get just as cold as the Great Plains. The article doesn’t really give enough detail to know what exactly this group is proposing. However, if the plan is being published in _Nature_, one of the most prestigious scientific journals, the authors have presumably done their homework on the possibilities of acclimatizing these species to the Great Plains environment. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/11 "2005-08-24T21:47:40Z")
I grew up accross the road from the “African Lion Safari” game park and also worked there in my teens. The park used to be open year round and the animals did just fine. The lions grew thicker coats and were more active in the cold but suffered no difficulties. They used to walk the elephants single file down the road in front of our house so when driving you had to slalom around the frozen elephant dung. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/12 "2005-08-24T21:56:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The lions that occurred in North America and northern Eurasia are sometimes considered subspecies of the modern lion, and sometimes as different species. Would it make more sense to try to introduce the Asiatic lion to North America, rather than the African? Is it capable of handling colder temperatures? What about the Asiatic variants of animals like hyenas, leopards, and cheetahs? They live or lived in or near central Asia as well, and so at least occasionally had to deal with cold temperatures, and leopards are still found in Siberia. For elephants, the ones that live in Nepal certainly have to deal with cold weather, so they might be able to cope. Ditto for Indian rhinoceroses. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/13 "2005-08-24T22:02:24Z")
There’s already an elephant sanctuary in Hohenwald, Tennessee. Here’s their web site. > **[The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee](https://www.elephants.com)** > > The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee provides captive elephants a safe haven dedicated to their well-being. Learn more. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/14 "2005-08-24T22:04:04Z")
Late one night I was watching a show on Animal Planet about a zoo somewhere in Canada (I think). Well, it might have been a wild animal something or another, not a zoo- but you know what I mean. The place had a HUGE indoor area that had some huge, huge door that opened to allow the giraffes outside. Now, the 'raffs could only go outside a couple months out of the year, but they did fine in their indoor habitat. I’m sure someone will come along with more info on this place. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/15 "2005-08-24T22:42:08Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Would it make more sense to try to introduce the Asiatic lion to North America, rather than the African? Is it capable of handling colder temperatures? What about the Asiatic variants of animals like hyenas, leopards, and cheetahs? They live or lived in or near central Asia as well, and so at least occasionally had to deal with cold temperatures, and leopards are still found in Siberia. The surviving Asian lions live in the Gir forest in India, which is tropical, so they wouldn’t be any better acclimated than African lions. However, modern lions did range into southeastern Europe (Greece and the Balkans) in classical times. The last Asiatic cheetahs were wiped out more than 50 years ago. The Striped Hyena is the only kind in Asia, and I don’t think it gets out of the subtropics. There are leopards in Siberia, the [Amur Leopard,](http://www.wildaboutcats.org/amur.htm) but they are so rare that it probably wouldn’t be permitted to transplant any. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/16 "2005-08-24T22:53:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The last Asiatic cheetahs were wiped out more than 50 years ago. There’s still a [tiny population](http://cheetah.irandoe.org) of Iranian cheetahs hanging on. Hyenas live in the same area, where the temperature can drop below freezing and it [snows](http://www.felidae.org/PROJECTS/Asiatic_Cheetah/ASCHTAH.JPG). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/17 "2005-08-25T02:16:20Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > There’s still a [tiny population](http://cheetah.irandoe.org) of Iranian cheetahs hanging on. Hyenas live in the same area, where the temperature can drop below freezing and it [snows](http://www.felidae.org/PROJECTS/Asiatic_Cheetah/ASCHTAH.JPG). That’s interesting. I wasn’t aware of that population. It was the Indian cheetah that became extinct 50 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/18 "2005-08-25T13:57:13Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > BIIGGG Cowboys. With laser eyes. Yeah! And maybe we could transport the animals via catapault! > [@Nonsuch](#): > > Solution: breed more aggressive, dangerous cows. Aren’t those called “Bison?” I dont’ see how this could possibly work. Lions might do well enough if they manage to break into a suburban home to overwinter, but elephants are cold-blooded and surely would perish by February when they freeze solid. That’s just silly! ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/19 "2005-08-25T14:35:05Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > , but elephants are cold-blooded I assume you do not mean cold-blooded literally. They are not reptiles, despite the leathery skin. Elephants are warm-blooded in the sense that all mammals are. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/20 "2005-08-25T14:43:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Just curious > > [MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/)[Elephants, lions to roam North America again? Plan to reintroduce large mammals, ecological history parks](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/) Doesn’t this strike anyone else as an incredibly, incredibly bad idea? Transplanting predators into North America from the other side of the planet… the results would be very unpredictable to say the least. Who’s to say it will help instead of screw the ecosystem even further? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505.md?page=2)