# Can African lions and elephants survive an American mid-west winter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505 "2005-08-18T00:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/21 "2005-08-25T14:47:07Z")
> [@Harriet the Spry](#): > > I assume you do not mean cold-blooded literally. They are not reptiles, despite the leathery skin. Elephants are warm-blooded in the sense that all mammals are. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/22 "2005-08-25T14:52:12Z")
If it’s too cold for lions, why not introduce a couple of thousand Siberian Tigers? That might spice up the annual pilgrimage to Yellowstone. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/23 "2005-08-25T14:56:48Z")
In the west, there still are cougars (pumas, moutain lions, etc., they have so many names), but apparently they don’t behave like African lions. At one time, didn’t they inhabit the mid-west? I think they’re more solitary, whereas female African lions stay together. Males, however, are more like moutain lions, I believe. Anyway, I think mid-west winters are unduly harsh, both for lions and people. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/24 "2005-08-25T15:05:15Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > In the west, there still are cougars (pumas, moutain lions, etc., they have so many names), but apparently they don’t behave like African lions. At one time, didn’t they inhabit the mid-west? I think they’re more solitary, whereas female African lions stay together. Males, however, are more like moutain lions, I believe. Anyway, I think mid-west winters are unduly harsh, both for lions and people. There have been a couple of isolated cases of Mountain Lions in Vermont in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/25 "2005-08-25T15:06:15Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > In the west, there still are cougars (pumas, moutain lions, etc., they have so many names), but apparently they don’t behave like African lions. At one time, didn’t they inhabit the mid-west? I think they’re more solitary, whereas female African lions stay together. Males, however, are more like moutain lions, I believe. Anyway, I think mid-west winters are unduly harsh, both for lions and people. Pumas formerly ranged as far east as the eastern seaboard. As they tend to like cover (forest, brush, and scrub), I would guess that on the Great Plains they may originally have lived mainly along watercourses. African lions are mainly found in savanna or lighter forest. They are not found in heavily forested areas, such as the larger blocks of rainforest. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/26 "2005-08-25T15:45:22Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > If it’s too cold for lions, why not introduce a couple of thousand Siberian Tigers? That might spice up the annual pilgrimage to Yellowstone. You could wager on the grizzlies vs tigers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/27 "2005-08-25T15:51:57Z")
I know I’ve been sily in this thread already, but please: can we leave tigers out of this? They are extremely difficult to find in the African wilderness. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that you couldn’t collect enough African tigers to populate a single cage, let alone the American mid-west. OK? So no more about TIGERS!!! GRRRR! ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/28 "2005-08-25T16:06:34Z")
> [@csharpmajor](#): > > Doesn’t this strike anyone else as an incredibly, incredibly bad idea? Transplanting predators into North America from the other side of the planet… the results would be very unpredictable to say the least. Who’s to say it will help instead of screw the ecosystem even further? No, it’s an excellent idea. If you read the article they are talking about restoring species that were here in North America and went extinct only 10,000 years ago. It would be no more harmful than the reintroduction of the wolf or bison. > [@](#): > > It would also re-create a more balanced predator-prey relationship in the Great Plains and Southwest, an ecological diversity that has been absent for more than 10,000 years thanks at least in part to hunting pressure. The idea, similar to one already under way in Siberia, is laid out in Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature by a dozen ecologists and conservationists at 10 universities and institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/29 "2005-08-25T16:17:55Z")
There was a highly diverse large mammalian fauna in North America, similar to that which occurs in Africa today, during the Pleistocene. Many scientists believe that overhunting by humans was at least partially to blame for the extinction of many of these species. North America formerly had something like 5 species of elephants, tapirs, lions, hyenas, cheetahs, horses, several kinds of llamas, a variety of antelope-like forms (of which the pronghorn is the only survivor), not to mention several species of giant ground sloths (which I would really like to see reintroduced if you could find any). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/30 "2005-08-25T17:38:23Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > I can we leave tigers out of this? They are extremely difficult to find in the African wilderness. Perhaps we could find them on the Asian continent? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/31 "2005-08-25T18:00:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I like the idea, but if ranchers don’t like it when we reintroduce wolves, how are they going to feel about lions, tigers & elephants? Somehow I don’t think the ranchers would be the biggest problem. People flip out and keep their kids home from school when a solitary mountain lion (puma, cougar, painter, panther…) is spotted within a few miles of a populated area. I can just imagine how folks would feel if you were releasing predators three times that size that travel in prides and cooperate to take down kills. And what would introduction of lions do to existing apex predator populations? As for the elephants, I certainly wouldn’t be thrilled if an elephant stomped down my fences and ate my apple trees. They wouldn’t be eating livestock, but they can be amazingly destructive critters. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/32 "2005-08-25T18:07:22Z")
> [@](#): > > North America formerly had something like 5 species of elephants, tapirs, lions, hyenas, cheetahs, horses, several kinds of llamas, a variety of antelope-like forms (of which the pronghorn is the only survivor), not to mention several species of giant ground sloths (which I would really like to see reintroduced if you could find any). You forgot the giant running bears, giant bison, giant beavers, saber-toothed cats, and dire wolves. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/33 "2005-08-25T18:09:42Z")
Allow me to reiterate. I lived acrosss the road from and worked at [The African Lion Safari Game Park](http://www.lionsafari.com/index2.asp) Whatever problems the animals might face, the cold is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/34 "2005-08-25T18:26:17Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > You forgot the giant running bears, giant bison, giant beavers, saber-toothed cats, and dire wolves. I didn’t forget them. I was mainly talking about fauna that was similar to that found in Africa and Asia today. I also deliberately left out Glyptodonts, giant Capybaras, giant armadillos, Terror Birds, and Thunder Birds. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/35 "2005-08-25T18:34:04Z")
> [@Doug Bowe](#): > > There’s already an elephant sanctuary in Hohenwald, Tennessee. Here’s their web site. > [http://www.elephants.com/contents.htm](http://www.elephants.com/contents.htm) There is also one in Arkansas, but they keep them inside during cold weather. They have male African elephants. Those guys are huge. I know I wouldn’t want them living in the wild. [http://www.elephantsanctuary.org/default2.asp](http://www.elephantsanctuary.org/default2.asp) Some of their information is out of date. The young African male was on Animal Planet last year. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/36 "2005-08-25T19:14:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …Terror Birds, and Thunder Birds. Given a choice, I’d prefer that these were kept in South America. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/37 "2005-08-25T21:11:53Z")
Keep in mind the square-cube law. An animal the size of an elephant has very little surface area for its volume, which makes it hard for them to radiate much heat into their environment. The ears might be a problem, especially if we’re talking African elephants (whose ears are so large precisely to increase their surface area for heat radiation), but other than that, an animal that size will have no problem with low temperatures. On the ecological note, just because these beasties or ones very much like them used to be here doesn’t mean that re-introducing them wouldn’t cause a problem. First of all, we’re not bringing in analogues to all of the pleistiocene fauna, since some of them don’t exist any more. Maybe the mastodont populations were naturally kept in check by the smilodons, for instance. OK, a modern elephant isn’t too far off from a mastodont, but with what do we replace the smileys? And even if we brought everything back, we’re not bringing them into an ecological vacuum. There are plenty of species currently living in North America, some of which probably weren’t here in pleisiocene times. Could they survive a rolling back of the clock? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/38 "2005-08-25T21:17:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Given a choice, I’d prefer that these were kept in South America. Oh you’re no fun. [Terror Bird](http://www.phonono.com/titanis_titel.jpg) _Titanis walleri._ Estimates range up to 9 feet tall. They were running around in Florida not all that long ago. [Thunder Bird](http://www.nhm.org/journey/pictures/birds/teratornis!.jpg) _Teratornis merriami_. The biggest species in North America, _Teratornis incredibilis_, had a wingspan of up to 18 feet. It had even bigger relatives in South America with wingspans up to 23 feet. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/39 "2005-08-25T21:24:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Terror Bird](http://www.phonono.com/titanis_titel.jpg) _Titanis walleri._ Estimates range up to 9 feet tall. They were running around in Florida not all that long ago. That Terror Bird looks like good eatin’. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505/40 "2005-08-25T21:56:08Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That Terror Bird looks like good eatin’. Yeah, but you got to catch it first. It might be just a little bit more of a challenge than your average Bob-white. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-african-lions-and-elephants-survive-an-american-mid-west-winter/317505.md?page=3)