# Can an Airplane Take Off on a Moving Runway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 31, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906 "2018-01-31T19:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/41 "2018-02-01T20:18:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe that the concept is that the aircraft and the conveyor belt are moving at the same speed. The aircraft does not move in relation to a fixed point off the conveyor belt. There will be no air movement relative to the wings. Right, but it was an aside based on **John Mace** ’s comment that it is easier if the treadmill is going with you. Elvis said, no, it doesn’t make a difference. When, actually, it would, as the treadmill would move the tired forward, and whatever friction there is between surface and wheel hub would impart momentum. Corry El was taking it a step further by imaging the brakes being on, and ending up with the concept of an aircraft carrier. If an aircraft carrier were traveling into the wind at or above the stall speed of the jets on it’s runway, they would take off. ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/42 "2018-02-01T20:19:29Z")
responding to the burger eating shrubbery: well done 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/43 "2018-02-01T20:21:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If an aircraft carrier were traveling into the wind at or above the stall speed of the jets on it’s runway, they would take off. Sure, they would literally blow off the deck. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/44 "2018-02-01T20:26:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sure, they would literally blow off the deck. Well, yeah. But if you had a pilot in one, and you brought the carrier up to stall speed, he could lift off and hover right over the deck. Same for landing, for that matter. We are talking stall speeds for fighter jets, which is generally going to be a touch faster than a carrier can go. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/45 "2018-02-01T20:32:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We are talking stall speeds for fighter jets, which is generally going to be a touch faster than a carrier can go. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/46 "2018-02-01T20:34:08Z")
What if the carrier is going full speed all engines blasting waves ahoy and then hits a corral reef and stops in its tracks? Would the planes then glide off or hover peacefully until a solution was found? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/47 "2018-02-01T20:39:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We are talking stall speeds for fighter jets, which is generally going to be a touch faster than a carrier can go. But a good fraction of it. A carrier can hit 30 knots or so, and if it’s going into a 20 knot wind then you have 50 knots over the wings before you even start the engines. An F/A-18E has a stall speed around 135 knots. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/48 "2018-02-01T20:47:55Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > What I said is definitely true. It must be a matter of you not reading or considering it carefully enough. One only had to be paying attention in high school physics. > [@](#): > > In the real life case of a moving runway Um, okay, real life. 😉 > [@](#): > > the key consideration is _how much ‘runway’ passes under the planes wheels before the relative wind speed over the wings reaches flight speed_ The airplane flies when the wings are at what you call “flight speed” relative to the air. No, it doesn’t matter how you get there; that’s when the airplane flies. Your point that an airplane can go in the water off a carrier if it has a cold cat shot or some other equipment failure is true enough, but not responsive to the OP. No, a reverse treadmill will not affect takeoff any more than a forward one. Yes, pedants, there is such a thing as rolling friction, but the OP isn’t asking that either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/49 "2018-02-01T20:48:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > :dubious: Unless you are aware of classified info about some really fast aircraft carriers or some fighter jets with really low stall speeds. If you are, don’t tell us. ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/50 "2018-02-01T20:53:12Z")
The name is a hint - shh, they don’t want us to know. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/51 "2018-02-01T20:58:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They put an R/C airplane on a roll of paper and pulled the paper. The airplane moved much faster than the paper and took off. As I remember they used an RC plane on both a treadmill and a real airplane on a large sheet. I need to rewatch and post a link. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/52 "2018-02-01T21:29:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One only had to be paying attention in high school physics. > > Um, okay, real life. 😉 > > The airplane flies when the wings are at what you call “flight speed” relative to the air. No, it doesn’t matter how you get there; that’s when the airplane flies. > > Your point that an airplane can go in the water off a carrier if it has a cold cat shot or some other equipment failure is true enough, but not responsive to the OP. No, a reverse treadmill will not affect takeoff any more than a forward one. Yes, pedants, there is such a thing as rolling friction, but the OP isn’t asking that either. The title of the thread is ‘Can an Airplane Take Off on a Moving Runway’. A carrier is the only actual practical example of a ‘moving runway’. So it seems strange to call discussion of this case off point in favor of exclusively discussing the wacky conveyor case. Anyway I made it perfectly clear I was speaking of carrier take off. And _NOT_ using catapult (again WWII carriers generally didn’t use them, sometimes didn’t have them) to avoid the confusion you might be falling into if thinking the functioning of the catapult is all that matters…though in a post above you seemed to understand that relative wind over deck IOW _how fast the moving runway is moving_ absolutely matters for carrier takeoff, strange. Anyway in the real case of a plane taking off (whether catapulted or not but let’s stick to non-catapult to simplify) from a ‘moving runway’ aka a/c carrier, the carrier’s speed matters because the plane _won’t_ ever reach flying speed if the required takeoff run to reach it is longer, _in length_, than the available deck space. And the required _length_ of takeoff run is a function of the carrier’s plus the wind’s speed, for a given plane in a given condition (of load). And that length could be insufficient without any equipment failure, say if somebody really thought ‘high school physics’ meant it didn’t matter how fast the carrier was going and slowed down enough to extend the required take off roll length to greater than available deck length. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/53 "2018-02-02T17:57:12Z")
What if the carrier is in for repairs, and on a giant rolling runway? And all the planes are on giant sheets of butter? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/54 "2018-02-02T18:14:02Z")
Helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/55 "2018-02-02T19:41:37Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Helicopters. OK. Helicopter on a turntable that can spin infinitely fast. does it take off? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906/56 "2018-02-02T21:12:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > OK. > > Helicopter on a turntable that can spin infinitely fast. does it take off? Yes. In every direction. As soon as centrifugal force overcomes structural strength. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-an-airplane-take-off-on-a-moving-runway/807906.md?page=2)