It works the other way if his friend just doesn’t understand how it works at all.
Yeah. And I should clarify that it’s not necessarily applying for refugee status from the UN as I said–one can apply for refugee status from a particular country, I just mean to emphasize that there is a reasonably uniform definition of what a refugee is based on how the UN and various international treaties define them–but the point is that if one has not arrived at the border or passed into the country, one is seeking refugee status. Asylum seekers are people who meet (or, as they are seeking, claim to meet) the definition of a refugee, but are physically present at or beyond a point of entry.
Of course, as much of this side discussion has been about extradition and whatnot, if the person is not at or beyond the point of entry into Switzerland, but rather still in the US, then the whole question of extradition (not that it has anything to do with the question of refugee status, which is another of the points I’m trying to drive home) is kind of moot.
According to our common friend, Bob is in an asylum center in Switzerland and was requesting a laptop be sent to him there. (scam alarms started ringing in my head, but there were no further red flags, the address checked out.).
I am not sure who foots the bill for the stay at the asylum center. Those things are basically hotels as I understand it.
Bob definitely would have had to leave the US while out on bail. It was after the charges were filed and before his trial. I think that, technically, as long as he shows up to his trial, he might get away with violating bail conditions if he doesn’t get flagged automatically when he lands in the US.
Distinction between claiming asylum and avoiding extradition.
Asylum as discussed is about avoiding persecution. Normal prosecution for a normal crime does not rise to that level. All he does is piss off the Swiss by making them go through the motions. (Although there’s probably a disctinct difference between immigration holding in Switzerland vs. USA).
Avoiding extradition presumes you have a valid reason to be in the country (citizen or permanent resident). It simply means they won’t send you back just because the other country asked. Otherwise you must leave or be deported when your allowed time is up - or go through the refugee process, be denied, and then be deported. If he has no Swiss residency/citizenship, he’s probably limited to 180 tourism days. Switzerland, like the USA and much of Europe. probably isn’t interested in admitting random (unemployed, not rich) people just moving there.
With apologies for being so frank, it’s actually kind of outrageous that Bob is seeking asylum in Switzerland. He clearly has no conception of how difficult it is even for people fleeing actual persecution to make out asylum claims, particularly in nations like the US and Western Europe where nationalism, racism, and a healthy dose of NIMBYism have led to increasingly regressive policies being enacted and employed against bona fide asylum seekers coming from war-torn nations. It’s kind of galling, really.
Anyway, I hope Bob is able to come to terms with the reality of his situation and that the judge he ends up in front of doesn’t have any kind of background in immigration, refugees, or even just human rights law. The less they know about the system Bob is seeking to abuse the better.
Also, re: that laptop, IANAL but if I were being asked by a fugitive to aid him in his quest to evade prosecution, I would contact a lawyer before provided any sort of assistance. And who knows what’s on that laptop or what sort of activity Bob might conduct on it…
Again, IANAL, but I would run like hell from providing any kind of assistance to Bob without contacting an actual lawyer first.
I was responding to the question whether a citizen of an EU Member State who is wanted in a third country that has an extradition treaty with that State can go to another EU Member State without such a treaty.
If you’re already in the jurisdiction where you’re wanted, then this is, course, irrelevant; the authorities can detain you there. They can also keep you in detention if, meanwhile, you manage to get asylum in another country in absentia. The fact that you have obtained such status in another country does not oblige the authorities of the country where you’re detained to release you so you can go there.
No need to apologize.
As far as the laptop goes, that was not a request addressed to me so don’t worry. I am definitely very much in the clear. I doubt our common friend, let’s call him Homer, is going to send a laptop anyways if I’m being honest.
Some background: Homer was telling me Bob should face the music a few months ago. Bob had missed his first courtroom appearance and was in Europe. He then flew to NYC, got arrested and sent to NYC jail for a few weeks, then, I assume, was released on bail after being delivered to Wisconsin since he’s now in Switzerland.
I am surprised he was able to fly out, honestly. Don’t states talk to the feds about who’s on bail and shouldn’t be allowed to leave the country? I guess not. I remember that affluenza kid made it to mexico. Bob is white but comes from middle class family. He also had no criminal record at the time of the drug charge.
I’m surprised that he was able to leave the country too. Wouldn’t Bob have been forced to surrender his passport as a condition of bail? I am not a lawyer, but that’s what happens on TV
My bet would be that Bob will use this as a talking point* with his friends, but will never do all the organizing and go to all the work it would actually entail.
*“Dudes, this is so unfair, I mean, it’s so… fallacious… that I could totally just get asylum. Like, if the Man keeps persecuting me, I’ll just disappear and end up in Switzerland, and don’t think I won’t!”
Note there are several countries which don’t have extradiction treaties with the U.S. Unfortunately it looks like most of them are undesirable places to live:
The other important point being, just because the countries don’t have an explicit treaty does not mean they cannot give a foreigner the boot. They may not, simply so they can stick it to the USA, or because the person comes bearing largesse. The average Joe who’s likely got no means of support is not necessarily welcome. And if they give you the boot - where else can you go? Typically one random country isn’t taking the other’s deportees, they end up on a plane back to their home country. You can try perpetually bouncing from one to another country, but (a) with what money? and (b) how long is your passport good for?