Here in Minnesota, they’ll even come out later to get you for refusing to make way for emergency vehicles.
We’ve had cases where drivers who just sat there obstructing a Fire Truck had their license numbers taken down and reported to the police by the Fire Department, and the police sent a car out to the home address of that vehicle to deliver a ticket – a very expensive one!
Believe it. After a press outcry his fine was revoked.
Comments from some sensible policemen here.
I have to go to work now, but there are more a quick Google away.
That doesn’t answer whether it’s technically legal or not. It sounds like it’s not, but that the police [del]will[/del] should use common sense and not prosecute after the fact. If the Lexus driver had caused an accident - run a pedestrian over, for example - where does the liability lie?
It’s one thing for a policeman to say “we use our judgement”, but I surely retain a duty of care and can’t be under a complusion to break the law. So if I am unwilling to break the law to allow an emergncy vehicle to pass (for whatever reason), under UK law is there any penalty that I can suffer (this assumes that the only way to let the vehicle pass would be to break the law)?
Yes, they did break the law. They were unable to move the the RIGHT side of the road. The ambulance endangered them by forcing them into possible on-coming traffic.
I was in this situation on a divided street ( wasn’t obligated to stop unless the emergency vehicle was on my side of the street). I was the “on-coming” with a green light. The ambulance forced a car to turn left into me. The ambulance driver got the ticket.
Did the ambulance actually push the car into the intersection? Otherwise, what did the driver get a ticket for? Having his lights and siren on?
Also, as I understand it, only on a limited access highway are you not required to stop. What if the ambulance was turning left at that intersection?
[emphasis mine]
I don’t care what the jurisdiction, the ambulance driver needs more training. Maybe a safety sensitivity course.
If what he did isn’t illegal, it ought to be.
The folks who made the turn across traffic? IANAL, but I did teach driving and if I can’t do something safely, I don’t do it.
In Ohio, no one can legally force you to break a traffic law. When you yield to emergency vehicles, you must do so in a safe and responsible manner. I occasionally have drivers appear before me in court who are charged with running a red light and who tell me that they were only trying to get out of the way of an ambulance, police car or fire truck. If there was no other way for them to get out of the way, and if I believe them, I find them not guilty. It rarely comes up, though.
This is what my firefighter husband has told me: They can’t force you to do something illegal, but if it’s safe for you to do so, get out of the way. He’d also be very surprised if any officer handed out a ticket to anyone for doing anything illegal (such as entering the intersection against a red) when trying to give right of way to an emergency vehicle.
On that note, if there is an accident in an intersection involving an emergency vehicle that is hot and another vehicle, and it was the emergency vehicle that ran the red, it’s the emergency vehicles fault.
Also, as stated, they do write down plate numbers of those that blatantly fail to yield to an emergency vehicle and call the police to follow up.
I have been “pushed” through intersections by emergency vehicles at least five times in my life. I ave no idea what the odds of that happening are.
Each time I was in the left turn lane and each time I laid on my horn and just edged out into cross traffic until it stopped whereby I completed my left turn and the ambulance continued forward through the intersection.
I always thought that what I did was legal and possibly mandatory.
Of course the possibility that it isn’t legal is unimportant. I’ll do it again regardless.
He used the loud speaker to tell the car to get out of the way. There was no other way to do so but to turn left. There were cars to his right and he was in the turn lane, waiting for his green arrow. (The lane ended on the other side of the intersection.)
Since the ambulance stopped to see if I was alright, and he had no one in the back He may have been ticketed for running code without reason.
If the ambulance was turning it could and would have used his opticom to change the light to red, so I would no longer have the right of way.
As an Ambulance driver/attendant (mostly attendant) I believe there is some miss-understanding of the law(s).
1st of all, these laws are universal to all states.
The law requires a motor vehicle to proceed through the intersection(when in the intersection) and then stop to yield to the emergency vehicle.
Otherwise without that clarification (that is misunderstood some drivers would sit still and block the intersection.
I have had many drivers proceed into an intersection for me in the past, and now if I see a clogged up intersection ahead, I will kill the light’s and siren as to now cause problems.
With the quality of care on board today’s ambulances a shot delay at a clogged up intersection shouldn’t make it nessesary to push others around and cause them to be in a hazardous situation. If we have a serious/unstable Pt. We will have what is called an “ALS Intercept” .
One of the newer changes that scare the crud out of me is the pulling over to the nearest shoulder. The younger drivers learn this, but the old timers always think “RIGHT” even after defensive driving courses. Its just to ingrained in them.
Running Code 3 is very dangerous for all!
Another EMT checking in, but in Maryland, so of course YMMV.
This is pretty much how it works here. I am not supposed to force other drivers to make illegal or unsafe maneuvers to get out of my way.
If I’m approaching a red light, I’m required by law to stop, and make sure the cross traffic is aware of me before proceeding.
If I’m coming up on a congested intersection, I’ll usually try to move to the right because there’s usually more room, with the shoulder. Drivers in the right lanes have more options (turning down the side street) other than heading out into the intersection. The left side might have a median that I can’t go over.
Part of my driver’s training included looking way ahead and being aware of upcoming situations.
I presume you meant “not.”
Ex CA ambulance driver here, we would usually shut down and let the lights cycle. Yeilding right of way is about yeilding right of way you have to give. You do not have right of way if you are facing a red light therefore you cannot yeild it.
This is a bit of a sidenote, but recently I had an experience that amazed me. I currently live in a rural region, and was driving in what qualifies here as a metropolis (well under 20,000 people). I was in the left turn lane, first in line. It was the main drag so there were 4 other lanes of traffic. As I waited for a green light, I could hear an ambulance. Because of some oddity of the land layout, I could not tell whether the sound was coming from behind me (where my view was blocked by other cars) or from my left. Either way, I felt I had to stay put. The sound got closer, the light turned green, and NO ONE, not a soul, moved. Not only that, but no one honked to tell us to move. I have to assume quite a few of the other drivers facing my direction were experiencing the same confusion I was regarding where the sound was coming from. The oncoming traffic was also staying put, but of course they had the advantage of being able to possibly see the ambulance lights. All of a sudden, the ambulance appeared, from behind me, but on my left, in the ONCOMING TRAFFIC’S LANES. The driver paused just slightly to honk, then swung on through the intersection and back into the correct lane. The traffic hesitated long enough to see that no other emergency vehicles were following the ambulance, then proceded according to the stop light.
I am from this area, but lived several years in Chicago, which I think this is why this incident freaked me out so much. That ambulance driver knew that in this small town the siren would be respected–that not only would the oncoming traffic remain at a standstill but so would the cars in the left turn lane–and that gave him the confidence to pull off such an manuver.
By the way, in my home town (population 1000, no stoplights), the drivers of emergency vehicles routinely use only lights, and only sound their sirens on as-needed basis, i.e., to get the attention of the occasional daydreamer. When other ambulance services come through town (to get to the aforementioned metropolis’ hospitals) sounding their sirens, everyone rolls their eyes and makes remarks regarding drama queens.
Heh. My dad still remembers when an ambulance driver on his first day of work in the small town in which I grew up got fired for using his lights and sirens…to convey a corpse to the hospital.
Probably because running with lights/no siren is outside the rules. In Seattle, if a driver runs silent except when nearing the hospital, they could lose their job.
When nessesary (not saying sweetie situation was) but an emergency vehicle may travel the wrong way on a 1 way street.
On the very 1st run with my youngest daughter as a new EMT, we had a mile run down the wrong way. She was quite big:eek: eyed:)
As for running with lights and no siren, well that is done much to often and in MN is not legal for ambulances. Leo’s are different in that respect.
Elendil’s Heir, Yes that was a typo, I am not fast enough for the edit window on here:confused:
I believe it’s the opposite in the UK (no cite, sorry).
Ambulances etc are only supposed to use a siren when necessary (i.e. to warn traffic).
If they are on a clear road - e.g. a quiet motorway - then they will run with lights only.
The main reasons are:
It reduces the impact of the sirens if they are on all the time; they risk becoming part of background noise, rather than intruding as they are supposed to.
It annoys people, especially in built-up areas near hospitals / major routes. There’s no need on a deserted city street at 3am to run every ambulance with the siren going, it wakes people up and doesn’t serve any purpose (no traffic to warn).
It’s always up to the discretion of the driver though - if the siren is needed then they can use it, but where possible it’s meant to be quiet.
I live in a border county of North Carolina; may of our runs go to a hospital in Virginia. In NC, I can drive silent legally, Virginia I cannot. I do it anyway when it’s warranted. One other squad member was threatened with a ticket by VSP for driving lights only.
Our shortest possible hospital run is about 20 minutes, with 30-35 being typical. I sure hate having to listen to the wail the entire time, and IMAO it’s not necessary for the routine calls.