# Can and will Trump pardon all the DC rioters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249 "2021-01-11T11:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/81 "2021-01-16T20:41:46Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > the Former Presidents Act 1958 grants the perks > [@BigT](#): > > Yep, that one single word seems to make the difference in how it would be interpreted, especially by more textualist judges. But surely the law can be changed by simple majority in House and Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/82 "2021-01-16T20:44:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Those are government policies, to be granted or removed at the whim of the administration of the day. Not at the “whim of the administration”. As statutory provisions, they can only be amended by Congress. Don’t know if they could put that into the budget reconciliation measure, on the basis that removing all those perks from ex-president Trump saves money… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/83 "2021-01-16T20:46:25Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > > the Former Presidents Act 1958 grants the perks > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > Yep, that one single word seems to make the difference in how it would be interpreted, especially by more textualist judges. > > But why does this matter? Surely the law can be changed by simple majority in House and Senate. What is your reasoning for why a simple majority would be enough? Plus you get into bills of attainder and/or ex post facto territory if you make a special law for the guy you are currently holding a trial for. And they’re already going to likely have to litigate the ability to impeach him after he’s out of office. (All based on what I’ve heard: IANAL). ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/84 "2021-01-16T21:13:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What is your reasoning for why a simple majority would be enough? The Former Presidents Act is not part of the Constitution. It only required a simple majority to pass, so it only requires a simple majority to change, surely? > [@BigT](#): > > bills of attainder and/or ex post facto territory These are legitimate concerns, sure. Obviously the exact content of any change to the law could be challenged as unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/85 "2021-01-16T21:23:10Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > What is your reasoning for why a simple majority would be enough? > > The Former Presidents Act is not part of the Constitution. It only required a simple majority to pass, so it only requires a simple majority to change, surely? Not unless they abolish the filibuster, or this bill can be shown to fit into a category that would not be subject to a filibuster. (In theory maybe no one would attempt a filibuster, letting it pass with just 50 votes, but then why wouldn’t they vote for the bill?) ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/86 "2021-01-16T21:24:37Z")
I don’t want him or Javanka having access to classified info after this. Tr\*ump might be too scatterbrained to listen to it but Javanka won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/87 "2021-01-17T04:02:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Plus you get into bills of attainder and/or ex post facto territory if you make a special law for the guy you are currently holding a trial for. Yeah, that would be brought up, if you establish a law specifically to deprive Donald J. Trump _alone_ of those benefits retroactively. If the Law at the time that DJT exists the White House is that he gets certain benefits, the presumption is that those benefits stay at least as they were on that day. > [@Skypist](#): > > I don’t want him or Javanka having access to classified info after this. Tr\*ump might be too scatterbrained to listen to it but Javanka won’t be. This particular problem ends (for now) on the 20th unless he is removed in some way earlier. For future purposes you’d have to rely on the impeachment to proceed and bar him from holding office again. For the other family members, I don’t think you have a legal tool to bar them from ever achieving high office, or applying for a clearance on their own merit if a job requires it and they otherwise qualify. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/88 "2021-01-17T04:21:28Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > For the other family members, I don’t think you have a legal tool to bar them from ever achieving high office, or applying for a clearance on their own merit if a job requires it and they otherwise qualify. It would take an amendment to the Constitution, sure. Which would be fanciful in this day and age. But wind back the clock to Magna Carta, and take a look at clause 50 for a chuckle: > We will remove entirely the kinsmen of Gerard d’Athée from their bailiwicks, so that in future they may hold no bailiwick in England, [namely] Engelard de Cigogné, Peter, Guy and Andrew de Chanceaux, Guy de Cigogné, Geoffrey de Martigny and his brothers, Philip Marc, his brothers, and Geoffrey his nephew, and the whole of their brood. They must have really not liked that Gerard d’Athée character. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/89 "2021-01-17T06:51:03Z")
I thought they (Tr\*mp and Javanka) would keep their top secret clearances, which they should never have qualified for to begin with, unless purposely revoked. Regardless of whether or not any of them run for federal office again. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/90 "2021-01-17T13:30:34Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@Monty](#): > > > > Does he also lose the Secret Service protection? > > Probably not. It’s unprecedented. Didn’t ex-presidents lose the Secret Service protection-for-life benefit a few years ago? (8? 10? 15?) The way I remember it congress decided to do away with ex-POTUS protection-for-life but grandfathered all the living ex-presidents in. Plus they would still have gotten a few years protection after they left office. I think W. Bush or Obama would have been the first prez not to receive it except congress changed its mind or something and brought it back. Found [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act) on wiki: The original act provided for lifetime [Secret Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service) protection for former presidents. In 1994, protection was reduced to ten years for presidents first taking office after 1996. This protection limitation was reversed in early 2013 by [Pub.L.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Law_(United_States)) [112–257 (text)](https://www.govinfo.gov/link/plaw/112/public/257?link-type=html) [(pdf)](https://www.govinfo.gov/link/plaw/112/public/257?link-type=pdf&.pdf) also known as the _Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012_ .[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act#cite_note-3) All living former presidents and their spouses after Dwight D. Eisenhower are now entitled to receive lifetime Secret Service protection. Their children are entitled to protection “until they become 16 years of age”.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act#cite_note-4) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/91 "2021-01-17T13:33:19Z")
My understanding is that it was removed and then reinstated after 9-11. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/92 "2021-01-17T13:41:01Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > My understanding is that it was removed and then reinstated after 9-11 That was about what I thought it was but my [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act) above (Former Presidents Act) says: > In 1994, protection was reduced to ten years for presidents first taking office after 1996 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/93 "2021-01-17T13:56:58Z")
Bearing in mind the individual person DJT does not have a security clearance, it’s that a POTUS has access to classified information by virtue of his office – once he is out of office it is at the discretion of the new administration what briefings to provide the ex-prez and what to include as a matter of courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/94 "2021-01-17T14:10:58Z")
I was just ready to type the question that you’ve answered. If it’s a courtesy, Joe would be insane to let Donald in on anything. The man will be no more fit to receive it, understand it and keep it a secret as an ex-president than he was when he was entitled to them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/95 "2021-01-17T15:07:04Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > That was about what I thought it was but my [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act) above (Former Presidents Act) says: > > > In 1994, protection was reduced to ten years for presidents first taking office after 1996 Two lines below that: > On January 10, 2013, President [Barack Obama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) signed the Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012, reinstating lifetime Secret Service protection for his predecessor [George W. Bush](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush), himself, and all subsequent presidents. Also, going back to the earlier question, even people with a regular “earned” security clearance, it does not mean they are entitled to whatever information classified at their level on a mere “ask and it shall be given” basis after leaving their official post. In the case of DJT, already as President it was widely noted he cared not for the content and at most only looked at the cover page highlight bullets anyway so it would be entirely within reason to give him only that and only about things that are going to be found out soon anyway or are not imminently critical. Hmm… "Good morning, Big Guy: 1. Last night we started bombing Karjackistan. 2. Today a report comes out that it’s the hottest year ever AGAIN and we are literally toast within 50 years. 3. No, we checked, yesterday’s news was not fake, your property in Palanganuinui IS gettign repo’ed. 4. Kim and Vlad again tweeted word for word something that we planted in your last briefing on purpose. Stop that. 5. Sources say Graham is finally officially coming out this afternoon. Franklin, that is." ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/96 "2021-01-17T17:43:09Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > How will he ignore the ban? Please explain. Simply ignore the ban - he could win primaries with a write in. The confrontation would be classic Trump. Since the most outrageous and endearing act available to him is pardoning the beloved patriots who shit on the capitol, I believe it likely that he will pardon them. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/97 "2021-01-17T18:49:07Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > If it’s a courtesy, Joe would be insane to let Donald in on anything. He should warn Trump that any release of the information will result in an immediate end to the sharing. Then, feed him nothing but believable, innocuous, but completely fictional information that only Trump will receive. Basically the equivalent of a spam trap/honeytoken/trap street/etc. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/98 "2021-01-17T18:52:27Z")
Even if you are entitled to security briefings I don’t think you can take anything home in writing. I’d hate to be the Russian handler who has to debrief Trump to find out anything mentioned that doesn’t have the word “Trump” in it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/99 "2021-01-19T13:53:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This. The rioters serve no purpose to Trump, and we know he’s contemptuous of them - he complained about them being “low class” while the riot was happening. He liked the riot, he just thought the rioters were beneath his station. Do not underestimate Trump’s thirst for retribution, trolling, and spite. He’s demonstrated a willingness to burn down the Republican party, and absolute petty spite toward Biden. He’ll absolutely sow as much chaos as his legal counsel will advise him is safe, and then some. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249/100 "2021-01-19T15:01:00Z")
He’s still got a whole day to go… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-and-will-trump-pardon-all-the-dc-rioters/930249.md?page=6)