# Can anybody easily understand Leo Bloom? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203 "2018-06-16T14:04:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/21 "2018-06-16T20:08:55Z")
Some of my posts are often confused, so perhaps I’m the pot calling the kettle black, but … > [@kayT](#): > > I have never found any of his posts incomprehensible, as far as I can remember. The one linked in the OP seems clear enough to me. What about it is not understandable, OP? 😕 Include me among those baffled by that OP. I _think_ he’s suggesting that some of the Thread Games threads have become more personal and he views that as a positive development. _Did I guess that much correctly?_ I’d have preferred that he make his point in a more straightforward way. And what’s with terms like “intra-OPs”? Is it supposed to tantalize us to guess what such words mean? One or two Dopers asked for clarification in a very polite way, and drew this insolent response: > [@Thread Games: Have the kind "questions" within threads, and responses, become more personal?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-games-have-the-kind-questions-within-threads-and-responses-become-more-personal/816096/23): > > Tell me which sentences you don’t understand. Start with the subject line, which, yes, misses the word “of” before “questions.” Yes, the word “about”–doesn’t match “regarding”–but it was a lapse because “asked” and “answered” really should be handled differently, but the whole “asked-and-answered” is considered (roughly here) as one set, and I would not let that slide in formal composition. > … > Asked: See the large type sentence with the question mark. It announce the query, and the rest of the OP. Even if there is not a single query mark in the rest of the post. I’m sorry if the missing “of” tripped you up… Now I learn that, apparently, **Leo Bloom** isn’t incoherent because he has trouble expressing clear thoughts, but because it’s his deliberate stylistic fetish to appear incomprehensible? :eek: I’ll be interested to observe myself and see whether I read **Bloom** posts with greater or less attention in future. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/22 "2018-06-16T20:40:55Z")
> [@Thread Games: Have the kind "questions" within threads, and responses, become more personal?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-games-have-the-kind-questions-within-threads-and-responses-become-more-personal/816096/40): > > Please don’t. Asking for clarification is fine. In the above snark fest, I responded to your discrete and non-offensive post with “snark+:)” The 🙂 was for you; the snark was to those who thought your post was part of their pile on. The person you were before sat down once more\*a flailing monkey is ever present=An old apple can get both high and low. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/23 "2018-06-16T20:45:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Some of my posts are often confused, so perhaps I’m the pot calling the kettle black, but … > > 😕 Include me among those baffled by that OP. I _think_ he’s suggesting that some of the Thread Games threads have become more personal and he views that as a positive development. _Did I guess that much correctly?_ Now see, when I finally sorta-guessed it, I thought he meant it as a _negative_ development. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/24 "2018-06-16T21:24:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Now see, when I finally sorta-guessed it, I thought he meant it as a _negative_ development. I think that’s because he sounds upset, or maybe it’s just that usually a stream of words like that would be because someone was too mad to pause and choose their words wisely. After re-reading it, it looks it can be read either way, but I’m not convince that what he’s upset about is as simple as “Thread games = more personal”. And when he finally returns to the thread to scold everyone who asked for clarification, he’s definitely pissed off. > [@septimus](#): > > I’ll be interested to observe myself and see whether I read **Bloom** posts with greater or less attention in future. Yeah, for the sake of my sanity, I’m going to try “less attention”, but I do have a fascination with **dougie** -level trainwrecks (well, more like slow-motion pile-ups involving multiple ice cream trucks)… ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/25 "2018-06-16T21:41:54Z")
Maybe if you try reading through that thread with NO PRECONCEIVED IDEAS (I know, can’t be done) you might see why \*\*Leo \*\*got so defensive. Some people seemed to have no trouble understanding and actually replied to the OP, but everyone else got really snotty about how they did not understand what he said, and some even said, basically, “as usual”. Must be frustrating for **Leo**. It’s true he doesn’t use words of one syllable or present simple ideas. I don’t know. Having to work a little to understand a post doesn’t seem too burdensome to me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/26 "2018-06-16T21:47:36Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Maybe if you try reading through that thread with NO PRECONCEIVED IDEAS (I know, can’t be done) you might see why \*\*Leo \*\*got so defensive. Some people seemed to have no trouble understanding and actually replied to the OP, but everyone else got really snotty about how they did not understand what he said, and some even said, basically, “as usual”. Must be frustrating for **Leo**. It’s true he doesn’t use words of one syllable or present simple ideas. I don’t know. Having to work a little to understand a post doesn’t seem too burdensome to me. That’s not fair. I spend my career reading complex scientific literature and enjoy fine literature. I found it virtually unintelligible, and his explanations did not help me. That’s great it was easy for you, but to dismiss anyone else who had trouble as demanding simplistic words because we don’t want to work at it is just simply a crummy thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/27 "2018-06-16T21:51:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That’s not fair. > > I spend my career reading complex scientific literature and enjoy fine literature. I found it virtually unintelligible, and his explanations did not help me. > > That’s great it was easy for you, but to dismiss anyone else who had trouble as demanding simplistic words because we don’t want to work at it is just simply a crummy thing to say. OK, then, can you explain to me what part seems hard to understand? I feel like this has been asked before and the answer seemed to be “because the OP is always hard to follow”. I certainly don’t mean to say that everyone who didn’t get it was asking for simple ideas simply expressed, but a few people did say if they didn’t immediately grasp the first sentence of an OP they would go elsewhere. Obviously that was not you. So please, parse it for me if you can? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/28 "2018-06-16T22:07:37Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > OK, then, can you explain to me what part seems hard to understand? I feel like this has been asked before and the answer seemed to be “because the OP is always hard to follow”. I certainly don’t mean to say that everyone who didn’t get it was asking for simple ideas simply expressed, but a few people did say if they didn’t immediately grasp the first sentence of an OP they would go elsewhere. > > Obviously that was not you. So please, parse it for me if you can? I have no idea what an “intermittent topic’ within a “Thread games OP” means. If I could figure that out, I’m not sure “as well as” is now comparing to, and a threads’ raison d’etre (which I know what teh term means) has to do with it. What is an “intra-OP”/group topic? These are nonstandard ways of describing things, and I have no clue what they mean. So then comparing “Have you ever” to it helps me none. He participates as an “intra-thread participant”- does that mean he posts? So, as I posted in that thread- I tried to parse it to a couple of questions, in which the answers were just as confusing. I asked: > [@](#): > > How would you describe how Thread games were? > > How would you describe how Thread games are now? > > Are you asking “Thread games were less personal before and do they now seem more about individual poster’s personal opinions?”” > [@](#): > > Less personal. As to game proposals within OPs, and in entire OPs newly posted, as it seems to me, where the thread has sub-topics only about answering something with a personal response, ordinarily not related to topics where the temperature of the interplay (ie, “fighty” topics). Even though to some people preferring ale over stout, eg, can be as fighty as topics of the 2017 election. “And in entire OPs newly posted’… has “sub topics”… “not related to topics where teh temperature of the interplay”… Sure, I know the vocab and can piece bits together, but the overall question is utterly obscured. I don’t like the snarky responses to him either, but that doesn’t make me want to defend his posting as unquestionaingly clear. Again, that’s great is was easy for you. You two speak the same language. But, leaving the snark against him aside, can’t you at all see how it could be (in good faith) hard for someone else? And FWIW, I’m not asking anyone to explain it to me now. I got the jist and really am not interested in the particulars being explained to me. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/29 "2018-06-16T22:13:18Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > OK, then, can you explain to me what part seems hard to understand? I feel like this has been asked before and the answer seemed to be “because the OP is always hard to follow”. I certainly don’t mean to say that everyone who didn’t get it was asking for simple ideas simply expressed, but a few people did say if they didn’t immediately grasp the first sentence of an OP they would go elsewhere. > > Obviously that was not you. So please, parse it for me if you can? You’ve got to be kidding. I’m also a professional writer and scientist, and Leo’s prose is quite difficult to follow. > [@Thread Games: Have the kind "questions" within threads, and responses, become more personal?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-games-have-the-kind-questions-within-threads-and-responses-become-more-personal/816096/1): > > It seems to me that the intermittent topics within some Thread Game OPs as well as the _rai·son d’ê·tre_ of one entire OP have become a place where posters are asked and answered more or less truthfully (if the spirit of the players is in tune with the game) regarding the in-real-life facts and opinions behind the usernames. What are “intermittent topics”? How is a raison d’etre a place? How can posters be both asked and answered in the same OP (or intermittent topics in the OP)? > [@](#): > > I’m thinking (Feb 2018) of many intra-OPs (occasional group questions) in the last year or so [??] of **[Baker’s Dozen](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573445)** and, in particular, the brand new **[Have You Ever…?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848325)**, which is only like that in premise, and is an even better example of what I suspect is something new as a way of interaction in the forum. Again, it is very unclear what “intra-OPs (occasional group questions)” is intended to convey. Yes, it’s possible to get some sense of what is being asked after repeated readings, but it’s by no means clear. About 75% of the words are unnecessary and only serve to create confusion. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/30 "2018-06-16T22:21:49Z")
I find that his questions are phrased is such a way to make them appear sophisticated, but are actually needlessly verbose and obfuscatory. His M.O. seems to be: “Never use 5 words when two paragraphs will do.” ETA: this pitting is long overdue. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/31 "2018-06-16T22:29:04Z")
The thing is, **Leo** can write in a more straightforward way when he tries to. I don’t know how much of his circumlocutionary style is just his habitual way of expressing himself, and how much is deliberate. But he’s been told for years that his style is confusing. Rather than making more of an effort to write clearly, he gets defensive and snarky when people say they don’t understand him. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/32 "2018-06-16T22:33:14Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The thing is, **Leo** can write in a more straightforward way when he tries to. I don’t know how much of his circumlocutionary style is just his habitual way of expressing himself, and how much is deliberate. But he’s been told for years that his style is confusing. Rather than making more of an effort to write clearly, he gets defensive and snarky when people say they don’t understand him. That’s the part that bugs me. In his latest thread he is asking _us_ for input. He has a question and is inviting us to discuss it with him. Writing is for communication and if the people _he needs to interact with_ to get his question answered are telling him that his communication is getting in the way, don’t berate and be dismissive. Apparently he felt his reply to me was nice. I’ll take him at his word, but it sure didn’t feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/33 "2018-06-16T22:44:17Z")
Hey, I’ve taught students who are trying to understand Joyce, and I only occasionally understand **Leo Bloom** … ETA: Nobody uses convoluted English like that by accident, and works that hard to make a simple question that difficult. I can’t believe he’s not doing it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/34 "2018-06-16T22:52:01Z")
In the thread in question, the first two posters who responded, including ITD, politely asked Leo to clarify what he was asking. But rather than actually try to be clearer, he gave this perfectly asinine response. He not only is snarky, he responds by just referring people back to his OP. > [@Thread Games: Have the kind "questions" within threads, and responses, become more personal?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-games-have-the-kind-questions-within-threads-and-responses-become-more-personal/816096/23): > > Tell me which sentences you don’t understand. Start with the subject line, which, yes, misses the word “of” before “questions.” Yes, the word “about”–doesn’t match “regarding”–but it was a lapse because “asked” and “answered” really should be handled differently, but the whole “asked-and-answered” is considered (roughly here) as one set, and I would not let that slide in formal composition. > > The first poster asked this, which allowed the usual slow readers to pile on and have fun: > > “Are you asking if questions and answers in thread games are revealing more personal information than they used to?..” > > Asked: See the large type sentence with the question mark. It announce the query, and the rest of the OP. Even if there is not a single query mark in the rest of the post. I’m sorry if the missing “of” tripped you up. > > “Are you concerned, intrigued, or delighted by this change?” > > Answered: Did you read or understand the last sentence of OP? Now I can understand him being annoyed by some of the other joking responses, but this kind of reply is totally counterproductive. Later he says this, which demonstrates he can communicate clearly if he tries to (or maybe if he doesn’t try to be deliberately complicated): > [@Leo Bloom](#): > > We talk often here about the way people interact on the board. I’m wondering if any of the old timers here have seen a change within Thread Games in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/35 "2018-06-16T23:47:11Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Must be frustrating for **Leo**. I highly disagree. He chooses to write in a complicated way. People constantly ask him for clarification because of the way he wrote. He chooses to continue to write in a complicated way. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/36 "2018-06-17T00:29:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Later he says this, which demonstrates he can communicate clearly if he tries to (or maybe if he doesn’t try to be deliberately complicated): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Leo Bloom > > We talk often here about the way people interact on the board. I’m wondering if any of the old timers here have seen a change within Thread Games in particular. When I read this part of **Colibri** ’s post, my internal reaction was _Did anybody suggest to **Leo** that this would have been a good way to present his OP? Because it seems like that would have been an on-point remark._ And in fact, that re-write is pretty much the vibe that I got from **Leo** ’s OP. But because I don’t follow Thread Games, I didn’t feel like the thread would be terribly edifying wrt **Mr. Shine** ’s OP. So I never drilled down deep enough to learn whether my impression was itself, on point. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/37 "2018-06-17T01:27:44Z")
I’m just glad someone else is being called out for being incomprehensible. After all, I’ve made an effort to sometimes make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/38 "2018-06-17T02:00:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > When I read this part of **Colibri** ’s post, my internal reaction was _Did anybody suggest to **Leo** that this would have been a good way to present his OP? Because it seems like that would have been an on-point remark._ > > And in fact, that re-write is pretty much the vibe that I got from **Leo** ’s OP. But because I don’t follow Thread Games, I didn’t feel like the thread would be terribly edifying wrt **Mr. Shine** ’s OP. So I never drilled down deep enough to learn whether my impression was itself, on point. **Leo** has had feedback many many times over the years about how to write more clearly. In the thread in question, **Riemann** gave him an extensive explanation of what was wrong with his OP. **Leo** mostly put the blame on other people for failing to understand his posts, rather than trying to take any responsibility for trying to communicate better. **Leo** is kind of like the person who can’t sing who grabs the mike in the karaoke bar, and when people criticize his singing he insists it’s their fault for not appreciating music. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/39 "2018-06-17T02:08:09Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Not the first time he’s been pitted for this, IIRC. > > If I’m not mistaken, the last time around was for a particularly confusing post, even for him, about how elevators work, or something of the sort? Can’t find it now, but man it was a real beaut. It was this one: > [@Hey Leo Bloom - What Was This?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-leo-bloom-what-was-this/812814/1): > > With my apologies to everyone, I just have to know: [what the hell is this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=853397)? > > Parody? Drunken Rambling? Forgot to lock your PC? > > Please tell me you don’t owe your dog a bath and his favorite treats. Still no answer. Leo is Leo. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203/40 "2018-06-17T02:08:45Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I have never found any of his posts incomprehensible, as far as I can remember. The one linked in the OP seems clear enough to me. Since you understand it clearly, do you think you could rewrite the first sentence of OP for us in more standard language? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-easily-understand-leo-bloom/816203.md?page=3)