# Can anybody really get a license to sell fully automatic weapons, and then sell to "friends and family, colleagues, or interested buyers"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 10, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538 "2024-08-10T16:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/21 "2024-08-12T05:39:50Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > There is absolutely no reason to use a real firearm, even with blanks, on a production set. Tell that to Alec Baldwin, right? > > BTW, blanks can be dangerous also. Indeed. So why need an armorer on set if all weapons are fakes and cannot shoot bullets? Ask Alec Baldwin. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/22 "2024-08-12T05:54:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Indeed. So why need an armorer on set if all weapons are fakes and cannot shoot bullets? > > Ask Alec Baldwin. Because they still use gun powder and function like real firearms and can still be dangerous. Also, just because I say there is no reason to use real firearms on a set doesn’t mean the production team agrees. Most of the time the weapons used are fake. Either way, gun accidents on movie/TV show sets are extraordinarily rare especially when you consider how many feature guns in the plot. So someone is mostly doing something right. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/23 "2024-08-12T06:19:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yet SCOTUS decided a high RoF is fine depending on how that is achieved. Which seems silly. The law doesn’t define a machine gun as a weapon with a high rate of fire. The law defines a machine gun as a weapon that fires more than one round with a single trigger pull. That is the basis for the Supreme Court ruling. You can’t just arbitrarily make up a new law without getting any of the lawmakers involved just because someone figured out a creative way to pull the trigger more quickly. If you want to regulate high rate of fire weapons, then you need to actually go through the proper process to change the law to regulate high rate of fire weapons. You can’t intentionally mis-apply an existing law that specifically applies to trigger pull. Our country has a long history of silly gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/24 "2024-08-12T06:55:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How does Hollywood manage when they want to depict the characters using automatic weapons? Are the guns disabled someway to be able to only fire blanks? (or something else) Both. The safe way to do it is to use rubber guns and add the gunshot special effects digitally in post. Modern SFX can do a pretty convincing job of making the gunshots look real. The old-fashioned way of doing it is to use blanks. But then you run into a problem where automatic weapons and even semi-automatic weapons won’t cycle correctly. There are a few different ways that automatic weapons work. Some simply use the recoil from the round to cycle the action and load and fire the next round. Others have a small hole in the barrel where gases from the round are used to push a rod of some sort backwards to cycle the weapon (the term to google is “gas blowback” if you want to know more). Blanks have less recoil than a real round so Newton’s law applies here. If you aren’t throwing as much mass forward because there’s no bullet, the forces backwards are also smaller. It’s the whole equal and opposite reaction thing. Also, since there is no bullet for the gases to push out of the barrel, the gas pressures are significantly reduced. Without enough gas pressure, the operating rod in gas operated weapons won’t push hard enough to cycle the weapon. The Hollywood solution to both of these is to use what is called a “blank firing adapter”. This is typically a modified gun barrel or a modified part of some sort that goes into the barrel, which can be as simple as something that blocks the barrel but still has a small hole in it so that the gases can get out, they just build up a lot more pressure first. A lot of automatic rifles have a “muzzle brake” (aka recoil compensator) on the end of the barrel. This is a small adapter that diverts some of the gases from the round backwards to reduce the felt recoil of the weapon. For automatic weapons that tend to climb when you shoot them (because the recoil forces are above the center of mass), the muzzle brake may also have holes on the top to divert some of the gases upwards, to push the barrel down and compensate for the weapon’s natural tendency to climb. Very often, it is easy to create a realistic looking muzzle brake that has the blank firing adapter hidden inside of it. This makes the blank firing adapter cheap and easy to install since it doesn’t require any other modifications to the weapon. Other automatic weapons have a flash hider on the end of the barrel, whose purpose is, as the name suggests, to hide the muzzle flash from the weapon’s operator. This is so that the muzzle flash doesn’t ruin the vision of the operator when firing in low-light conditions. It is usually very easy to hide a blank firing adapter inside the flash hider. If you tried to fire a real bullet out of a weapon with a blank firing adapter in it, the restricted barrel effectively turns the weapon into a pipe bomb, and there’s a good chance the weapon could blow up in your face. So the armorer has to be very careful not to have any live rounds on set. This is a blank firing adapter for an M-16. Note that it almost completely obstructs the barrel, and has only a small hole to let the gases from the blank out. This particular one is designed to get installed inside the muzzle flash hider. [![](https://www.mooremilitaria.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/960x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/b/f/bfa.jpg) ](https://www.mooremilitaria.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/960x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/b/f/bfa.jpg) The blank firing adapter for a Glock pistol is usually a replacement barrel. The military also uses blank firing adapers for training. They aren’t just for Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/25 "2024-08-12T08:17:00Z")
[THIS](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XRz-C3Mnf_k) is interesting ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/26 "2024-08-12T12:04:05Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The law doesn’t define a machine gun as a weapon with a high rate of fire. The law defines a machine gun as a weapon that fires more than one round with a single trigger pull. And then you get the question of what counts as “one trigger pull”. Is it one motion of the finger, or one motion of the trigger relative to the rest of the gun? With a bump stock (which is basically a spring), when you move your finger once, the gun bounces back and forth from the recoil and the spring so that the trigger moves repeatedly. Depending on how you interpret it, that could be counted as one trigger pull or many, which is why they were banned for a few years and then the court reversed the ban, because they took different interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/27 "2024-08-12T17:42:38Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The laws on automatic weapons start with the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1924 1. > [@DrDeth](#): > > It is not as easy as you think to get a FFL (the following is from California, but each state and the Feds have rules) A lot of people in California get FFL-03, as it allows you to get ammo shipped. It’s super easy to get, but it is not a dealer license. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/28 "2024-08-12T18:50:30Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > A lot of people in California get FFL-03, as it allows you to get ammo shipped. It’s super easy to get, but it is not a dealer license. Also the Curio & relic license. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/29 "2024-08-12T19:01:53Z")
There was a news item 10 yeas ago where a 9yo girl was on a range with an instructor. She was apparently firing a machine gun (“mini-uzi”, say the news reports) and lost control, ended up shooting the instructor. Is there a special rule for firing ranges and other commercial outfits? Or would this have been a pre-86 legal automatic weapon? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/30 "2024-08-12T19:04:06Z")
That’s the same thing. You also need a Certificate of Eligibility with is a CA-specific thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/31 "2024-08-12T19:29:41Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Is there a special rule for firing ranges and other commercial outfits? Or would this have been a pre-86 legal automatic weapon? Not a special rule. The range has an FFL/SOT. The gun range I worked at also had the FFL/SOT machinegun dealer’s license, even though the range never actually sold machineguns to anyway. Technically it could have. But the license was just so they could legally own the MP5 and Thompson available for customers to rent. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/32 "2024-08-13T13:14:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Also the Curio & relic license At one time Missouri required an FFL in order to own NFA items of any kind. So if you wanted silencers or to make an SBR or SBS you needed an FFL. C &R was the easiest to get. Missouri dropped that requirement, but many of us still have 03 FFLs. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/33 "2024-08-14T20:25:27Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > At one time Missouri required an FFL in order to own NFA items of any kind. So if you wanted silencers or to make an SBR or SBS you needed an FFL. C &R was the easiest to get. Missouri dropped that requirement, but many of us still have 03 FFLs. I don’t follow this. I used to have a C&R permit at one time. It is a license to collect, not to buy and sell firearms. It does not make you a dealer. In fact if you want to sell one of the guns logged into your book you have to transfer it to yourself (off the book) and then sell it if I remember correctly. It doesn’t allow you to buy a silencer or SBR, you have to apply specifically for a tax stamp for each situation. But I don’t live in Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/34 "2024-08-15T08:27:59Z")
States can have additional requirements to obtain an SBR, SBS or machine gun on top of federal requirements. Some states require you to have a C&R licence before obtaining weapons in those categories. Illinois as an example [https://www.alphakoncepts.com/yes-you-can-own-an-sbr-in-illinois-heres-how/](https://www.alphakoncepts.com/yes-you-can-own-an-sbr-in-illinois-heres-how/) ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/35 "2024-08-15T12:47:42Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > It is a license to collect, not to buy and sell firearms You are correct. Missouri law said you had to have a FFL to own NFA items. It did not specify what kind of FFL. So a C&R met the requirements. Any FFL would have worked. I guess I could have gone with ammo manufacturer or pawn shop. I still had to do the paperwork to acquire the NFA items. If I made you think otherwise I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/36 "2024-08-24T21:44:30Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The safe way to do it is to use rubber guns and add the gunshot special effects digitally in post. Here’s a super cool video on those rubber guns that I saw the other day. Boy, those sure look real! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/QStKCdyrUz8/maxresdefault.jpg "RUBBER GUNS in the MOVIES. (Westerns!) With film armorer Joey Dillon") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QStKCdyrUz8) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/37 "2024-08-25T01:49:53Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Here’s a super cool video on those rubber guns that I saw the other day. > Boy, those sure look real! And are illegal in some places. _The state also makes it illegal under Penal Code 12556 PC to display an imitation firearm_\* , an object resembling a real gun. It’s a crime in California for someone to display an imitation firearm in a public place. An “imitation firearm” can include a firearm replica, a BB gun, a toy gun, a BB gun, and a pellet gun.\* [https://www.keglawyers.com/imitation-firearm-law-penal-code-12556#:~:text=The%20state%20also%20makes%20it,gun%2C%20and%20a%20pellet%20gun](https://www.keglawyers.com/imitation-firearm-law-penal-code-12556#:~:text=The%20state%20also%20makes%20it,gun%2C%20and%20a%20pellet%20gun). So, since on stage or on a set those would be displaying them, they are thus illegal to use in film. (except of course CA has loopholes- a LOT of loopholes for the Film industry). People just do not understand laws that apply to _we the people,_ and a special set of laws that apply to film, the arts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/38 "2024-08-25T23:11:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > on stage or on a set those would be displaying them But that’s not a “public place”. Very definitely private property not open to the public. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/39 "2024-08-26T01:12:54Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > But that’s not a “public place”. Very definitely private property not open to the public. A stage with a play is not a public place? Locally they make a lot of films right here on the streets- public place. But again, since the laws create exceptions for film, etc- perfectly legal. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538/40 "2024-08-26T08:38:35Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > on stage or on a set those would be displaying them > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > > > But that’s not a “public place”. Very definitely private property not open to the public. > > A stage with a play is not a public place? A closed set would not be a public place. Even a stage with a play is a private venue that allows members of the public in but it’s still a private place. Out on the sidewalk or street sounds like a public place. But many jurisdictions allow private entities to rent sections of sidewalk or street for various reasons, thus making it a private place. Our entire state fair here is a private event. It’s paid for by U.S. Cellular. Even though it’s entirely held on state property which is a public park during those 11 days it’s in the ownership of a private company. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-really-get-a-license-to-sell-fully-automatic-weapons-and-then-sell-to-friends-and-family-colleagues-or-interested-buyers/1005538.md?page=3)